 
 
 
 
Lane Cunningham Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
 
 
 
 
 
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
August 11, 2015 
 
 
 
  

  
 
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
 
 
 
 
  
Andrea Jenkins  -AJ 1 
Lance Cunningham -LC 2 
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AJ:  My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the transgender oral historian for the Transgender Oral 5 History Project.  Today is August 11, 2015, and Im going to ask you to introduce yourself.  State 6 your name, preferred pronouns, gender identity and gender assigned at birth. 7 
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LC: My name is Lane Cunningham, my preferred pronouns are he and him, and my gender identity 9 is trans masculine/male.  I was assigned female at birth.   10 
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AJ: Thank you.  I really appreciate you coming in today for this interview.  Lane, can you tell me just 12 a little bit about your earliest memory, period?  13 
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LC: My earliest memory would have been when I was maybe three or four and my mom and I lived 15 together in a duplex on Clark Lane in Columbia, Missouri.  She would let me play outside in the 16 yard by myself and she was maybe doing dishes at the kitchen sink with a window overlooking 17 the front yard.  I was outside in the gravel driveway and it was just after a heavy downpour and I 18 had my rain boots on, my goulashes, and I was traipsing through the puddles and the mud and I 19 got down to the end of the driveway and the gravel kind of receded and it was just all mud.  I 20 stepped into the mud and I was in the center of this mud puddle and I could not get my feet out 21 of the mud.  So I was stuck there in the middle of it and I was panicking and I was waving and my 22 mom later tells me that when I was going like this, she thought that I was just waving hi to her 23 and she was just like, Hi, and Im like, Ahh, Im stuck.  So, thats probably my earliest 24 memory. 25 
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AJ: Wow, fun.  So there was fear  you kind of panicked a little bit? 27 
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LC: Oh yeah.  For some reason it didnt occur to me that I could just take my feet out of the boots, I 29 was like, Ive got to stay here in these boots.   30 
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AJ: Well you were three or four. 32 
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LC: Exactly. 34 
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AJ: Tell me a little about where you went to elementary school. 36 
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LC: So I went to a few different elementary schools.  I started off at Benton and actually ended up 38 switching schools out of Benton because I got bullied on the bus a lot.  So switched schools, and 39 this was in the middle of 1st grade, to Russell Blvd Elementary.  That was a good school from 40 what I can remember.  Generally speaking I was always kind of the precocious kid who would 41 get their work done really quickly and then bother all the other kids in class, build towers with 42 markers in the center of the classroom, and my teachers were pulling their hair out trying to 43 figure out what to do with me.  I have a couple of teachers from elementary school that I was 44 really fond of.  I was kind of troubled when I was young, all through my younger years actually.  45 But there were some teachers who really . . . I could tell even though I was frustrating for them, 46 
they really kind of reached out to me and showed me that they cared about me and put in that 1 extra effort despite their frustrations.  So that really meant a lot.   2 
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AJ: Tell me a little bit about the bullying.  What was that experience like?  Were they calling you 4 names?  Were they making fun of your hair color?  What do you think that was around? 5 
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LC: One particular incident on the bus after school was . . . it may have even been within the first 7 couple of weeks of 1st grade starting, and I went back about three-quarters of the way to the 8 back of the bus and tried to have a seat and then these two older girls, I think they may have 9 been in 4th grade, kind of file in after me and push me down into the seat and they start putting 10 their fist in my face and telling me that if I dont say a bad word, and then they would tell me 11 which one to say, then they were going to beat me up.  So then they kept saying that until I 12 would say it and then when I would say it, theyd be like, Oh, you said a bad word  like 13 humiliating me essentially.  And then the bus driver . . . they kept shoving me back down into 14 the seat and the bus driver eventually had to come and break it up and brought me to the front 15 seat, sitting behind him.  But the little boy who ended up sitting next to me, kicked my shin the 16 entire way home and I just sat there and took it  I dont know why I felt like I couldnt say 17 anything.  So that happened.  I dont know what it was in particular that made me an easier 18 target for bullying than anyone else.  I think maybe I was just . . . despite the precociousness, I 19 was also really sweet and kind of trusting.   20 
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AJ: So you dont think it was necessarily around gender identity issues at that point in time? 22 
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LC: Well, I actually hadnt thought about it but it could have been because I definitely was never a 24 frilly girl when I identified as a girl.  I always gravitated toward wearing things that were from 25 the boys section of clothes in department stores and from Walmart.  And so it definitely could 26 have been that.  I think that with younger children its hard for them to articulate their 27 discomfort when they see someone thats kind of bucking the norm that theyre used to.  Its 28 definitely possible that that impacted their perception about me and why they needed to sort of 29 oppress me in some way.   30 
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AJ: So, you talked a little bit about your mom and growing up, but what was your home 32 environment like?  Did you have brothers and sisters, siblings? 33 
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LC: Yeah, so my parents got a divorce before I was born and my dad, shortly after, remarried and 35 had two children with my ex-stepmother, I now have a new stepmother, a very blended family.  36 My brother, George, and my sister, Katie, between my ex-stepmother, Melissa, and my father.  37 And then when I was nine, my mother remarried my current stepfather, Gerald, and between 38 them there are two girls, Maddie and Audrey, my sisters.  So I mostly lived with my mother 39 growing up and I would visit my dad on the holidays.  There were a couple year periods and 40 stints where I would stay with my dad, I lived up in Michigan with him for a period of about two 41 years or so in middle school. 42 
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AJ: What was that like, in Michigan? 44 
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LC: What was it like? It was very rural.  We lived outside of town, outside of a town called Mount 1 Pleasant.  Mount Pleasant was already a small town itself, so being on the outskirts . . . in fact, 2 so far out that we ended up going to a charter school which was drawing in kids from all the 3 different small country towns in that area.  That school, I think its since been shut down, but it 4 was honestly kind of a joke.  For that two years that I went to school there, I really didnt learn a 5 whole lot.  I just kind of hung out with my friends and the teachers, they didnt really care.  So 6 yeah, that was definitely an interesting situation.  I got to experience some fun things at the 7 time that maybe I wouldnt have if there had been more authority, I dont know.  Looking back I 8 think that it was really unfortunate. 9 
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AJ: You probably got really good grades.   11 
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LC: Right, really good grades if they dont care at all.  Yeah, thats an A.  During Spanish class I 13 remember the teacher would sit there, he would put on a movie dubbed in Spanish while he sat 14 over his computer looking at God knows what  every class, the entire school year.  I always felt 15 just this kind of nagging feeling, though, that there was something kind of below the surface for 16 me.  In my social relationships, there was just this kind of disconnect where I felt like there was a 17 part of me that I wasnt able to really talk about with my friends - at around that age and when I 18 was living in Michigan when I was going through puberty and experiencing some changes in my 19 body that were making me uncomfortable.  I felt especially uncomfortable because I was coming 20 to this realization that I didnt feel comfortable the way that my body was turning out and didnt 21 really understand how to put words to that.  Growing up, there was no . . . there was no history 22 project, there were no popular stories that I could have heard that would have provided me 23 with some amount of comfort.  So I was really isolated in that sense too. 24 
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AJ: So this was around 12 or13?   26 
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LC: Twelve or 13, yeah.   28 
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AJ: So, when was the first time that you realized that you felt different from the gender you were 30 assigned at birth? 31 
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LC: Well, my mom has said, and continues to say, that I always used to tell her when I was younger, 33 When I grow up, Im going to be a boy.  I dont recall that, but she never really pushed back 34 too hard against any of that.  I had trouble with that at my dads but at my moms, and I was 35 primarily with her, she was mostly just supportive of me just expressing myself creatively and 36 letting me pick out my own clothes, she never put any restrictions on that or the kinds of toys 37 that I played with or how I behaved.  She was pretty chill about that.  I think the first time that I 38 realized that something was different was when I was at my dads, I must have been . . . I want 39 to say 7 years old, and my brother would have been 5 and it was on a hot summer day and our 40 friend Levi was over playing and my brother and Levi were out in the side yard running around 41 and they were just wearing shorts, no shirt or anything, and so I step outside and I take off my 42 shirt and I start running around with them and then all of a sudden I hear my stepmother call 43 down to me that I need to come inside.  I go inside and she tells me that I need to put on a shirt 44 because Im a girl.  At that moment, I experienced a few different things.  First of all, just kind of 45 . . . like the first kind of awareness of the sexualization of my body, as a then female-identified 46 person, that even at a young age I couldnt escape just this sort of . . . the shame, I think, that 1 comes with that too.  Like, you need to hide your body, first of all, but then also that I felt much 2 more connected with the spirit of my brother and Levi than I knew was being implied by what 3 my stepmom was telling me that I needed to do or telling me about myself.  Shes basically 4 saying, Youre a girl so you dont get to do that.  That just didnt sit right with me, it didnt feel 5 right.   6 
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AJ: So your first recognition was around 7 years old?   8 
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LC: Yeah. 10 
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AJ: What terms do you use to describe yourself now?  How has that changed over time, if at all? 12 
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LC: Thats a good question.  So, I currently use male, man, trans masculine.  I also use gender queer.  14 I would say that Im masculine of center but I also have this fluid tendency where Ill wake up 15 and Ill just feel this kind of a shift in my spirit or presence for however long  sometimes it lasts 16 a few days, sometimes it lasts a half a day, or sometimes it will last longer than that.  There are 17 multiple dimensions happening inside of, and around, my gender.  Prior to now . . . I feel like I 18 went through a phase when I first came out.  Well, there are levels to my coming out.  When I 19 first started transitioning, which was about four years ago now, I, at that point, felt very much 20 identified with masculinity. I felt like there was this element of performativity that would affirm 21 my gender.  I feel like there is truth in that, that its easier for me to walk through . . . or not 22 easier, its . . . so I was attempting to achieve a social norm of masculine performance that I feel 23 like wasnt necessarily natural and was very much focused on the physical presentation of my 24 gender and focused on the physical aspect of it.  I think primarily because thats, for some folks 25 like myself, thats just part of the transition process but also whats interesting about it is up 26 until that point it was very much just this kind of inner-manifestation that what wasnt able to 27 express itself fully until I made that choice to step into that energy of transitioning of my 28 identity, of what I needed to do.  When I was a teenager I was always kind of more masculine 29 presenting.  I identified as kind of an androgynous lesbian at that point and then, like I said, 30 when I transitioned I went hard into that  like Ive got to be this super-butch guy.  Then after 31 doing some exploration, some meditation, and kind of feeling out my gender and what feels 32 most natural and a way to express it, to talk about it, and also doing research about masculinity 33 just in general and just kind of the construction of it and trying to pick apart what feels best for 34 me from what society is telling me I should do as a masculine-identified person. 35 
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AJ: Wow, thats fascinating.   Im really interested in a couple of terms that you used  gender 37 queer, and then you talked about this fluidity and it seemed like you had some challenges 38 thinking about it.  Can you say more about those terms? 39 
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LC: Yes.  So, my gender queerness is . . . so my gender has many dimensions and expressions.  To 41 me, being gender queer means that I am intentionally freeing myself of the need to perform my 42 gender in a way that society expects me to and that shows up for me where Im just . . . Im fully 43 able to just express my creativity and how I dress and how I interact with people and how I 44 speak, which frequently pushes back against what society might say is the masculine way.  I just 45 try to do . . . I just try to honor where I am at any moment in terms of my relationship with my 46 gender, which it shifts  so when I say that its fluid, its like . . . sometimes its like a wading pool 1 where it just kind of . . . the water just kind of shifts back and forth, flows back and forth easily 2 and I can kind of tell where Im at.  And then sometimes its these huge arching waves where I 3 feel like Im being thrown about and I feel like my . . . Im grasping for this sense of concrete 4 identity within myself but then Im able to settle again just . . . and realizing that I get to have 5 this really broad and rich experience of my gender.  Its really emotional sometimes, honestly.   6 
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AJ: Yeah, I imagine.  Particularly you used a description of waves.   8 
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LC: Yeah, thats emotion and dream interpretation.   10 
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AJ: Hm-hmm.  What challenges have you faced since you began to express your true gender 12 identity?   13 
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LC: Well, first and foremost, I experienced challenges within myself.  I recognize and defer to the 15 privilege that Im afforded for the fact that I can walk down the street and nobody is going to 16 clock me or call me out, and thats a lot of times easier for me to default to that instead of 17 walking how I really feel, which maybe, on any given day, means wearing some cute little shorts 18 and a crop top, but maybe Ill instead put on a suit and tie just because its easier.  There have 19 been some . . . definitely some people, strangers, who have been rude and said cruel things and 20 even had a couple of guys follow me when I was walking to my car from a club about a year ago.  21 So that was definitely scary.  Honestly, the biggest challenge though really has been with myself.  22 I think, too, I have trouble with being present in the fluidity of my gender  that Ill wake up one 23 morning and say, Why am I feeling this way today when I felt differently yesterday.  Maybe I 24 wake up and Im feeling more of this feminine energy, thats the best way to describe it, but I 25 was feeling masculine yesterday.  So trying to hold on to that instead of just allowing myself to 26 go into it.  I think that that really creates a lot of emotional stress for me when Im resisting that 27 natural tendency.  There are other challenges that, I think, too . . . back before I met my 28 husband, thats when I was really starting to express this more gender queer side of myself and I 29 saw the pool of people who might be interested in me romantically dramatically decrease when 30 I was expressing this more gender queer self and that felt really scary and lonely because I 31 definitely love having romantic interactions with people and developing those kinds of 32 relationships and so that was kind of unnerving.  I cant help but think too that I was also just 33 feeling the sense of . . . continuing to carry this sense of shame I have about my identity and 34 how I believe the right person will come along and it doesnt matter what youre wearing or 35 what you look like.  I do believe that.  But there was definitely a layer of loneliness and isolation 36 that I felt.   37 
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AJ: You mentioned husband, youre married?  39 
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LC: Yes. 41 
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AJ: For how long? 43 
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LC: For one month yesterday.   45 
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AJ: Wow, congratulations.   1 
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LC: Thank you. 3 
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AJ: Congratulations, thats quite something.  So what are your thoughts about this recent ruling that 5 the Supreme Court just laid out sort of legalizing marriage equality for all Americans? 6 
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LC: Obviously Im happy about it because my husband . . .  8 
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AJ: As well you should be. 10 
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LC: Yes.  My husband also identifies as a male and so we would not be able to be married without 12 marriage equality.  I think its a monumental ruling, its a monumental event in history.  Now it 13 means that Im going to have access to the same kinds of things that same sex couples didnt 14 have access to before and that makes me feel really happy.  Theres definitely a sense of security 15 in that.  I think its a shame that in order to gain these privileges that people would have to 16 engage in this sort of agreement, but nonetheless its working really well for me.   17 
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AJ: Thats great, thats really awesome.  Do you feel that now that marriage equality is the law of 19 the land, that the struggle for LGBT rights are over? 20 
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LC: Absolutely not.  There is still so much to be won.  So I grew up in Columbia, Missouri and then 22 for the past two years, before I moved to Minneapolis a month ago, I lived in St. Louis which is 23 where . . . . 24 
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AJ: For how long? 26 
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LC: For two years, which is where Michael Brown was murdered last year on my birthday, August 9, 28 2014.  It became very apparent that, not just within our city but across the United States, that 29 who the LGBT movement was for where the LGBT organizations basically refused to take part in 30 supporting the community in Ferguson and were not outwardly mourning, were not expressing 31 sympathy, empathy, anything, and were actually . . . well, I wont go into too much detail but . . .  32 
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AJ: You can, we like detail. 34 
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LC: All right . . . yeah, I tried to join a diversity awareness committee for Pride St. Louis, and Im not 36 at liberty legally to speak about the things that were discussed or what happened, but I 37 ultimately resigned from that position due to frustration about the dynamic within the 38 organization which is seen throughout many LGBT orgs that are in power right now, which is the 39 entire board is a bunch of cis white gay men making decisions for the cis white gay community.  40 Incredibly frustrating when intersectionality is not acknowledged, its a continuation of white 41 supremacy just looking . . . in a different movement.  Its still . . . that organization, Pride St. 42 Louis, is still really struggling a whole lot with the community right now.  Since its been a year 43 anniversary since then, they promised the organization that I used to be on the board with, the 44 Metro Trans Umbrella Group in St. Louis, they were going to do a town hall with the Metro 45 Trans Umbrella Group to talk about police brutality and trans folks and theyre . . . apparently 46 they cancelled the town hall and since have yet to reschedule.  I mean the agenda has always 1 been privileged and there are trans folks who are living and dying on the streets and having to 2 engage in survival sex because they cant access the resources that they need in order to maybe 3 even get a job or go to school, no less get the legal documents required in order to get an 4 appropriate identification to enroll in school or get a bank account.  There are all these barriers, 5 all these basic level needs.  We dont even have a true standard of care within the medical 6 system.  I know that when I first started transitioning, I had to educate my doctor about what to 7 do.  There are so many fundamental concerns that a lot of the LGBT orgs in power right now are 8 not listening to, so theres a lot of work to be done.   9 
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AJ: Wow.  So a couple of things in what you just shared.  First of all, you talked about cis, you used 11 the term cis a couple of times  c-i-s.  Can you just define that briefly for listeners who may be 12 listening to this audiotape 20 years from now and have no idea what cis means, or 20 minutes 13 from now and have no idea what cis means? 14 
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LC: Yeah, right  thank you.  So cisgender is someone who identifies with the biological sex assigned 16 to them at birth.  So, meaning a body comes out, theres a penis and the doctor says, Thats a 17 boy.  And then theyre an adult and they still are identifying as a boy or a man. 18 
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AJ: So the majority of the people on the planet, basically? 20 
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LC: Yes.   22 
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AJ: And its a way to sort of distinguish between transgender people and non-transgender people. 24 
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LC: Exactly.  And I think that there is also kind of a colloquialism inherent within the way that I used 26 it just then.  So when I say, Its run by a bunch of cis white gay men or, Cisgender white gay 27 men, what Im saying is that they have basically no idea what its like to be trans, theres kind of 28 this implied sense of disconnect as well as the privileges that come with not having to have had 29 the experience of being trans.  So never questioning your gender, thats probably a lot easier of 30 a life in present social circumstances.   31 
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AJ: The other thing that I was kind of interested in, I feel like I read that there were some challenges 33 at the St. Louis Pride where people of color were disinvited from marching in the parade.  Are 34 you familiar with that at all? 35 
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LC: Only on the fringe.  I actually wasnt there for Pride, but apparently, from what I know, the Black 37 Lives Matter protestors who were marching in the parade along with the Metro Trans Umbrella 38 Group did a die-in and then later were at the festival and security were telling them that they 39 needed to leave and were escorting them out, and I think maybe even physically pushed 40 someone out or led someone out of Pride.  So there was definitely a tone of, Whos Pride is 41 this?  And I think there are a lot of tensions right now too just because of all the, sort of, 42 corporate takeover of Pride in St. Louis now that is really dictating these system decisions about 43 what to allow in the parade, what to not.  Its complex and . . . yes. 44 
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AJ: Pride has become a little heteronormative in some ways.   46 
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LC: It is in some ways. 2 
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AJ: Lane, what are some of the more positive aspects of your coming to terms with or realizing your 4 true gender identity? 5 
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LC: So personally, having come to this place where more than ever previously, Im able to 7 experience my gender in the way that it shows up in any given moment.  I try to really honor 8 that.  I find that emotionally, while that fluidity may be a little bit stressful, actually being able to 9 express it has enriched my life and ultimately been so much better for my mental health instead 10 of fighting the urge to just be who I am.  Thats been such a beautiful experience coming to 11 embrace myself.  And with that embracing myself also comes this access to kind of the breadth 12 of my gifts, my talents.  I feel more motivated to play music and to pursue computer 13 programming stuff, which Ive always been interested in but now fortunately have the 14 opportunity to really study it.  Also, just caring about my body and taking care of myself and 15 eating healthy, working out, is very much . . . it has a direct relationship with my mental health 16 which is ultimately better because Im now trying really hard to honor my feelings.  In my 17 relationships with people, I felt a lot of support since I officially began my transition four years 18 ago.  So many people have shown up and are telling me that me sharing my experience or 19 knowing me has been so positive for them, that maybe something that Ive shared on social 20 media, like maybe a link, reminded them of someone else that they know and so they shared 21 that with them and it was good for them, or whatever the case may be.  Just that through living 22 authentically and not hiding myself, that that is creating more space for love and acceptance  23 just like all of the trans folks throughout history who were audacious enough to be who they are 24 and took that space, Im also able to take that too as sort of a tribute to just living authentically 25 and how thats a legacy.  I think thats so important for our community that we live authentic 26 lives despite society and the people who tell us not to.  So having a lot of support has been 27 wonderful for me.  My parents have been pretty supportive, since Ive been an adult anyway, 28 and Ive found friends and relationships with people who have also been really accepting and 29 supportive.  And thats, I think, really refreshing too because, you know, we were talking about 30 the fact that there isnt a lot of documentation about our history.  I feel like when 31 documentation started happening, it was also surrounding tragedy.  So the first time I realized 32 that I was transgender, that there was a word for it, that there was someone else who felt like 33 me, I was in high school, I was 16.  I was involved in the GSA, which met after schools on 34 Wednesdays or something in a particular classroom. 35 
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AJ: The Gay Straight Alliance? 37 
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LC: Yeah, the Gay Straight Alliance, GSA, and the movie that we were watching that afternoon was 39 Boys Dont Cry.  So, thats about the story of Brandon Teena, played by Hilary Swank, from a 40 small town.  Brandon ends up meeting a girl, they fall in love and she eventually finds out that 41 hes trans and, unfortunately, so does her family as well.  A lot of violence  emotional, physical, 42 and otherwise ensues.  Its a tragic story.  So needless to say, it kind of sucks when thats my first 43 identification with, Thats me . . . ohhh.   44 
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AJ: Wow. 46 
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LC: So yeah, we need to create more positive stories, we need to control the media about us.   2 
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AJ: Thats kind of what this project is going to be all about. 4 
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LC: Exactly. 6 
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AJ: To the extent that you are comfortable, Lane, talk about some of the medical interventions that 8 you have pursued or hope to pursue as a part of your gender transition. 9 
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LC: So, I started on hormone replacement therapy, taking shots of testosterone every week, about 11 three and a half years ago now.  I had surgery to masculinize my chest, I think it was last year  12 in June of 2014.  So thats the extent of the surgeries, or medical transition, that Ive had.  If 13 were talking about a continuation of my gender expression and what that will look like for me, 14 Im actually planning to, at some point, carry children.  So thats something that will . . . that will 15 be a medical procedure that Ill have as well that, in the grand scheme of genders, is 16 noteworthy, I suppose, at this time. 17 
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AJ: Yeah, I would say.  So you and your husband, your spouse, are planning to have children? 19 
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LC: Yes, we are. 21 
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AJ: Wow, thats incredible.  And you hope to carry a child. 23 
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LC: I do, yeah.  I really do, I really want that experience.   25 
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AJ: I would say thats a pretty significant medical, maybe not intervention, but certainly a medical 27 event that a lot of men dont necessarily experience.  You will be unique in that aspect  thats 28 great.  This love and relationship . . . so youre married to a man, so clearly your sexual identity is 29 gay, I would say.  Right? 30 
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LC: In this relationship . . . this is a gay relationship.  Generally I identify as pansexual, queer.  Ive 32 always been pretty interested just in people rather than gender.   33 
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AJ: Sure.  So do you have a label or term or a box that you put around your sexual identity? 35 
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LC: I would say probably the closest is pansexual or queer.   37 
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AJ: Pansexual or queer.  Two terms which are sort of vague.   39 
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LC: Would you like for me to . . . ? 41 
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AJ: Please. 43 
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LC: Pansexual . . . so pansexual, and queer, to me when I use them to identify my sexuality, it means 45 that it doesnt matter what someones physical body looks like, that Im more attracted to the 46 personality, the person.  I could name other things Im personally attracted to  I like achievers, 1 of course I like someone who is good looking but their gender doesnt necessarily dictate that 2 for me.  And, I like someone who can make me laugh.  So basically its not about the physical 3 person, its about who they are and so that pansexual piece means that anybody is fair game  4 so watch out.   5 
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AJ: Oh boy.  This is just a whole new world.  How do you feel about monogamy?  Youre married but 7 I know a lot of people who identify as pan are engaged in alternative relationships.  Is that a part 8 of your current reality?  Or future reality?   9 
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LC: No, naturally Im a monogamous person.  I definitely still experience attractions, I think that that 11 is human.  But, I really enjoy the experience of just committing to someone and putting all my 12 effort there.  I also am naturally introverted and so I can only imagine trying to manage two 13 romantic relationships.  For a while I dated but nothing was serious, but for the fact that I like 14 serious relationships, one is plenty for me.   15 
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AJ: Oh boy.  Have there been times when someone has been really helpful or insensitive or rude in 17 interacting with the medical community or the academic world or criminal justice system?  Have 18 you had some experiences that you feel like are either positive or negative that you would be 19 interested in sharing?   20 
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LC: Sure.  Yeah, and this is kind of funny because it might not be considered best practice, what this 22 doctor did, but I really appreciate what he did because he operated within the system in a way 23 that he felt would meet my needs.  So when I first moved to St. Louis two years ago, I started . . . 24 I looked up what doctors would be covered under my insurance and I just kind of picked one.  25 The guy I ended up going to, I was the second trans person he had met and had in his office.  He 26 was very open about asking me questions about what I was comfortable with and what I wasnt 27 comfortable with.  The first time that he wrote me a script for testosterone, he was like, You 28 know, Ill write this for you, Im not going to send you for bloodwork right away because that 29 might tip off your insurance or something.  I forget what is was . . . or exactly how he framed it 30 but he was like, just get bloodwork done in three months down the road.  And so he tried to 31 help me navigate the insurance system, the medical system, in a way that wouldnt create a big 32 hardship for me.  I really appreciated that a lot.  Its just unfortunate that he had to do that at 33 all, that he had to maybe compromise best practice for the sake of helping me out when he 34 knew that the way that he was helping me was me accessing the medicine that I needed and he 35 didnt want me to be prevented from doing that and he shouldnt have to push back against the 36 system to make that happen for me.  It will be nice once theres some official standards for care 37 of trans people. 38 
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AJ: Yeah. 40 
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LC: It will be much safer physically and emotionally.  That waiting room was fine and no one ever 42 questioned my name or anything like that.  Ive heard horror stories where, like, front desk 43 attendants are loudly arguing in the waiting room with a customer about not being able to call 44 them their chosen name.  Its like, What is the big deal?  Come on. 45 
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AJ: Im telling you this is my name . . .  1 
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LC: Right, its outrageous and humiliating, and ultimately could be dangerous for someone, if were 3 being honest.  If someone is outed in a situation where there are people around who are not 4 savory.  Fortunately, I had a good experience at the doctor. 5 
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AJ: Any involvement with the criminal justice system at all? 7 
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LC: How soon is this going to be released?  Who is going to see it?   9 
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AJ: Well, it will be a little while before its released, but it will be public. 11 
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LC: Sure.  Im probably going to decline to answer that one.   13 
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AJ: Thats perfectly fine.  How about in your schools or education situation? 15 
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LC: Any involvement with the . . .? 17 
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AJ: School would have had to have been like negative experiences around your identity in those 19 kinds of institutions? 20 
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LC: Yeah, definitely in public school, in high school.  That was when I started settling into this more 22 masculine expression of my gender and I remember just walking down the hall and there was a 23 group of other students who were following me down the hall, probably trailing about 30 feet 24 behind, just making all these awful comments about what I was wearing.  That happened 25 somewhat frequently.  I grew a pretty thick skin for that kind of thing and didnt . . . I guess its 26 possible that it did hurt my feelings more than I led on at that point, but you have to.  I had a lot 27 of friends and I was friends with a lot of different people in high school, but I definitely hung out 28 with the kids who were kind of more outliers, they were my main friends.  I actually dropped out 29 of high school the beginning of my junior year.   30 
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AJ: Oh boy, OK. 32 
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LC: I was just not able to really focus on my studies, just a lot of stress. 34 
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AJ: You found your way back?   36 
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LC: I did, yeah.  I got my GED within six months and then went to the University of Missouri and 38 graduated.   39 
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AJ: Thats great.  I know thats a somewhat common narrative for a lot of trans young people to 41 have to leave school for a variety of reasons.  What do you think the relationship between the 42 LGB and the T is like?  And you sort of talked about it a little bit specific to St. Louis, but on a 43 broader scale, what do you think that relationship is like?  44 
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LC: Well, what I find to be kind of ironic is that a T could be L, G, or a B, yet the T is so frequently the 1 specific concerns of the T, the value of the trans experience is not afforded by the L, the G, and 2 the B.  For some reason . . . I mean, not for some reason, our community is just . . . the trans 3 community is ostracized from the LGB community that for the fact that they are not having a 4 trans  they, the LGB, are not having a trans experience even though were supposedly a part of 5 the same community, they are unwilling to acknowledge that there is plenty more work that 6 needs to be done in order to get our whole community up to speed, up to have accessing our 7 rights and even in some cases basic resources.  So, the relationship  theres tension there.  8 Some of the biggest disparities in terms of . . . certainly wealth distribution and access to 9 opportunities is greatest between the gay community and the trans community.  So, yeah. 10 
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AJ: Is there a trans agenda or do you think there should be a trans agenda?  If you think there is, 12 what is it?   13 
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LC: The trans agenda, I feel like, has reached a really pivotal moment where we are, in this age of 15 technology, able to really connect with each other and share about our experiences with one 16 another and to come out of isolation and were starting to access more resources and power as 17 relationships are built.  Were getting jobs in important decision-making organizations where we 18 can advocate, we as trans people can have the opportunity to advocate on behalf of our 19 community and join our voice with the broader conversation.  The trans agenda is just one of 20 what equity looks like, which I think that there are so many different components to equity 21 including the disparity of race equity, of gender equity that continues to be pervasive.  There are 22 intersections in immigration, making sure that if a migrant person is . . . an immigrant person is 23 detained, that they are kept safe.  The trans agenda is, at this point, one of survival for such a 24 large part of our community.  I think that we definitely need to start . . . we need to continue 25 having those conversations and pushing through to get our voices heard at the broader table  26 because if we dont speak up for ourselves, its very apparent that no one else is going to. 27 
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AJ: Well stated. 29 
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LC: Thank you. 31 
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AJ: What, if any, has been the impact of your trans identity on your professional life?   33 
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LC: Fortunately, I have worked for businesses that were very supportive.  Not completely 35 knowledgeable, not with the perfect policies in the office that provide unisex restrooms or 36 things like this  gender neutral restrooms, or necessarily trans specific protections in their 37 policies, but the organizations themselves, the leaders in the organizations, have always been 38 supportive of me.  For instance, when I first came out and when I started to transition four years 39 ago, I was working in a very small office and all of my offices mates were incredibly supportive of 40 me and immediately began to work on respecting my wishes for calling me Lane, using he/him 41 pronouns.  It was really interesting because the folks I worked with then were also willing to ask 42 me questions because that was the kind of relationship we had, where it was safe for them to . . 43 . as I was educating myself about what it means to be trans through living it, I could then also 44 have that conversation with the people at work too.  So that was really cool, that felt really 45 important.  And then at my most recent job, I had to take a leave of absence for a couple of 46 weeks when I went down to have surgery on my chest.  My boss was super supportive.  I told 1 her what I was doing, I told her I was going down to have surgery and she was happy for me.  So 2 that was really cool.  I would say probably the . . . and this is just miniscule in the grander 3 scheme of things, but the thing thats been the most stressful for me is when I do apply for new 4 jobs and I know that if theyre doing a background check theyre going to be able to see my 5 previous name, sometimes you even have to write it in on the form, and so then I just think to 6 myself, Is that going to ultimately disqualify me?  Or if I didnt get hired for the job, would I 7 ever know that it wasnt because I was trans, because thats what they found out? 8 
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AJ: Sure. 10 
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LC: Theres definitely that nagging in the back of my mind.   12 
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AJ: Tell me a little bit about your music, youre a musician.  What instrument do you play?  Are you 14 a singer/songwriter?  What? 15 
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LC: Yeah.  Im definitely a singer/songwriting type, but also I love making digital music too using DJ 17 programs on the computer.  I like playing around with my voice a lot.  I also love playing guitar, 18 thats been pretty consistent for me for . . . gosh, when did I start?  About 13 years now.   19 
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AJ: Oh wow.  What genres?  Are you a folk singer, disco? 21 
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LC: Honestly a little bit of everything.  I like to compose my own melodies to songs, really any song.  23 I did kind of a cool rendition of Lets Stay Together. 24 
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AJ: By Al Green? 26 
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LC: Yeah. 28 
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AJ: Nice.  30 
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LC: I also did one to Sweet Dreams by Annie Lennox.   32 
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AJ: Annie Lennox, a classic.   34 
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LC: Im a huge 1980s kid.  I like to take songs and then adapt them, change them around, and mold 36 them into my own.  And so a lot of that is just finger picking melodies and playing around with 37 the vocal part of the song.  I really love to write love songs  those are probably the songs that I 38 write the most.  Im a huge romantic and . . . yeah, simple little love songs, they come really 39 naturally. 40 
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AJ: Oh, sweet.  So, one last question, Lane.  There have been some dramatic changes in the 42 landscape for transgender people over the past 10 years  like just sort of this rapid visibility and 43 awareness of the broader community, some of the issues and ideas around being transgender.  44 Where do you see the community in the next 10, 25, 50 years?   45 
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LC: My mind immediately went to Hunger Games.  Im just thinking in the grander scheme of things, 1 theres always this political apathy I have with that piece, just . . . Id like to think that well have 2 . . . so I feel like its inevitable that there will be a surge in knowledge about the trans community 3 in various realms.  So if were thinking in terms of . . . if were talking about medical stuff, I feel 4 like thats soon to come and as thats normalized, I would like to think that insurance, as it 5 already has been, will continue to evolve to make that more accessible.  Were starting to see, 6 also, community-based programs that are allowing people who dont have insurance or are low 7 income are able to now access hormones and things like that.  So I think that resources like that 8 will continue to evolve as the awareness around the trans community and what our needs are 9 come to light.  So that feels really positive to me because I know that people who desire to have 10 a medical transition will be able to access that.  I know that for me personally that was very 11 important to my transition process.  I think that as we continue to show up in the broader 12 cultural media, as we continue to create our own media and shape the conversation about what 13 it means to be transgender, that the experience of being trans, I hope, will, be de-mystified to 14 the point where we can celebrate that expression of diversity like other cultures already are.  To 15 me that would look like just getting to see even more diversity walking down the street, just in 16 how people express themselves in terms of their gender, that we wont be judged by what we 17 look like and instead well maybe be more easily able to access opportunities that the broader 18 culture accesses.  So I guess I hope that theres more equity, I hope that more people feel . . . I 19 feel like more trans people who are really struggling, I hope that there will be more resources so 20 that we can, as trans people, work within our community to uplift the parts of our community 21 that are struggling.  Because as we keep talking about it, as we keep talking about all these 22 disparities, people will . . . they have to listen, thats just the eternal optimist in me, but I hope 23 they eventually listen. 24 
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AJ: I think that weve got to remain hopeful.   26 
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LC: Yes. 28 
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AJ: I really want to just express my deep gratitude for you taking the time to share some really, I 30 think, intimate details about your life with this project.  So, thank you. 31 
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LC: Thank you.  Thank you very much for the opportunity to share my story. 33 
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AJ: All right.   35 

