 
 
 
 
June Remus Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
 
 
 
 
 
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
August 5, 2015 
 
 
 
 

  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
 
 
 
 
  
Andrea Jenkins -AJ 1 
June Remus  -JR 2 
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JR: Are we starting over? 6 
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AJ: Please tell me about romance and relationships, love.   8 
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JR: Ill have to tell you about that, Ive never been in love in all my life.  I havent.  Ive been in like 10 and Ive definitely been in lust.  But Ive never been in love. 11 
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AJ: Never been in love. 13 
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JR: Never been in love.  And Ive told every man I ever married, Im not in love, Im in lust, what are 15 you going to do for me?   16 
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AJ: OK. 18 
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JR: But I wont cheat on you, I wont sneak around and things like that.  Youre who Im going to be 20 with, but Im not in love with you.   21 
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AJ: Wow.   23 
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JR: But I like sex, I like sex - and you cant call that love.  Thats a physical thing.   25 
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AJ: Absolutely.  I agree.  Youve mentioned that youve been married several times.  How many 27 times have you been married? 28 
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JR: Seven  actually six, because I married one twice.  He had some extra attributes  yes.   30 
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AJ: OK.  So legal marriage or common-law marriage. 32 
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JR: Yes.  No, Im not common law, honey  if you cant get me to the church on time, I aint going.  34 Ive always been married and I either divorced them or theyre dead. 35 
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AJ: Wow. 37 
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JR: And Ive got four of them that are dead, three of them that I divorced. 39 
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AJ: Do you still keep in contact with any of your exes? 41 
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JR: Well Id like to but I dont think they want to have time with me because when you have a 43 break-up, I found that a lot of men want to dominate you afterwards and make you do things 44 that they want you to do in that part of divorcing.  I just dont let anybody do that to me at all, 45 and its caused me to be arrested a couple of times and Ive had some shootings in my life.  But, 46 all-in-all, they leave me alone after I do that.   47 
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AJ: OK. Do you have any friends in your life that are transgender? 1 
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JR: Yeah.  Youre a friend of mine. 3 
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AJ: I absolutely am, and Im transgender. 5 
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JR: I have a couple others that are close.  Most of my friends are dead because they were older than 7 I and it was time for them to go home.  Ive had lots of friends that Ive helped over that last 8 mile down the road because a lot of transgenders have been shut out from their families, shut 9 out from the love that they need from their family.  In the trans community Im known as Mama 10 June. 11 
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AJ: Mama June. 13 
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JR: Because I dont judge the children  children are children and children grow and they make 15 mistakes and you help them past that point.  When you see them going wrong you can tell them 16 but you cant force them to do anything, but they know Im always there.  They know they can 17 call me anytime day or night if somebody is being mean to them or they want someone to come 18 and get them, Im at that point  I will go and get them.  They trust me to do that.   19 
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AJ: This is kind of a tough question and youve sort of talked about it a little bit already, but how 21 was it when you first came out as being transgender to your family?  To your mother? 22 
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JR: My mother threw a brick  she threw a brick at me.  My dad worked at the brickyard in Des 24 Moines and he made decorative ashtrays to sit on the coffee table  they were little brick 25 houses . . . well, they werent little, they were like blocks.  I told her, she said, I went to church 26 last Sunday, and she said, And everybody stopped talking.  And I said, Oh, OK.   What comes 27 from that?  She said, They were talking about you.  I said, What were they saying?  She 28 said, They were probably saying that you were gay or something.  I said, Oh really, maybe 29 they were right.  First mistake  to a Black mother, you dont say that.  She said, What?  I 30 said, Maybe they were right.  And then I said, OK, Im going to go upstairs, because she 31 dont sound like shes in the best of moods.  And as I was walking away, something said fool 32 turnaround and look.  She had heaved one of those ashtrays at me and if I hadnt ducked she 33 would have knocked my head off.  34 
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AJ: Wow. 36 
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JR: There was a big old hole in the wall where that ashtray had hit the wall and I ran upstairs and 38 she said, Im going to tell your daddy when he gets home.  You know what my daddy asked 39 me?  Are you pitching or catching?  I said, Whats that?  I dont play baseball.  He said, Ask 40 your friends.  So I immediately run down to my little gay friend, who was 70 years old, and I 41 said, Whats pitching or catching?  And he said, Well it means are you on the top or on the 42 bottom.  I ran back home and I said, Im on top daddy.  Daddy never asked me any more 43 questions about it, he never said anything.  My mother, she was distant for about a month and 44 then I came home one day from high school and she had packed all my clothes and moved me 45 out of the house, she had gotten me an apartment.  She said she wasnt going to have any 46 freaks in her house so she got me an apartment, and I had a job.  I was quite happy because that 47 meant I could go anytime I wanted to  I didnt have to ask, answer questions or anything.  48 
Things got a little better between us when I was out of the house and then they got . . . I guess 1 they kept talking about me in church because I found my mom in the kitchen one day and she 2 had an envelope and I said, Whats that for?  And she said, Oh, thats your ticket so you can 3 go live with your aunt in Minneapolis because youre getting too notorious down here.   4 
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AJ: Wow. 6 
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JR: I was kind of hurt that my mother would want to put me out, but I was thinking about, Hmmm, 8 I got a gay cousin and she wears dresses up there too.  I know Aunt Cody wont feel bad about 9 that.  I came up here and she was just as I expected, she was loving and all that.  Only my 10 cousin didnt like me.  But we still, throughout the years, have always been in contact.  We never 11 had arguments or anything but it was just the difference in my personality and hers.  We didnt 12 dislike anybody but we didnt say anything.  She would say, if somebody asked her about me, 13 Well, shes all right, I guess, I dont know - we dont talk.  And Id say the same thing.   14 
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AJ: Shes trans? 16 
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JR: Yes.  Pre-operative.   18 
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AJ: OK.  So what do you think the relationship between the gay, lesbian, bisexual community and 20 the transgender community is?  How do you think about that?   21 
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JR: I dont think that . . . for me, I dont know how they feel about me but they put me to the side 23 because Im neither male nor female in their eyes, Im just kind of in there.  They socialize, most 24 of the time because they have a need to socialize with me because I have certain things going on 25 for myself and I work in the community.  But I got to the point, even some of the trans wouldnt 26 have anything to do with me because Im post-operative.  Didnt bother me about that, Im 27 where I want to be and theyre trying to get to where they want to go.   28 
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AJ: Right. 30 
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JR: So when they decide that theyre ready to make that step, they can call me.  Ive had four or five 32 that have had the surgery since I came here and started my group.  They seem to be doing very 33 well, a lot of them went into hiding after they had their surgery and theyre living in secrecy 34 again  worried about somebody dropping the dime on them.  I dont think thats very good, its 35 bad enough when youre gay and youre worried about somebody telling people that youre gay.  36 But if youre in a nice community and youve got friends and everything and somebody comes 37 and just wrecks your world, its not good.  But when you go into that secret world, people try to 38 find out anything they can because there is a secret.  39 
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AJ: Right.  And its almost like being back in the closet again. 41 
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JR: Yes, most of the time it is.   43 
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AJ: Right.  What do you think the agenda should be for transgender people moving forward?   45 
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JR: An agenda . . . well, not all trans people are interested in re-assignment surgery. 47 
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AJ: True. 1 
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JR: They are simply happy being who they are and being able to wear the womens attire.  There is 3 a sexual stimulation from it, I think.  If theyre accepted, great  they get along fine.  If they have 4 trouble with it, Im here to help.   5 
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AJ: OK.  Have you been tuned in to the Caitlyn Jenner story at all? 7 
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JR: Ive had a few people ask me about it.  In fact, I was at a meeting in St. Paul and the young lady I 9 met with, the first thing . . . she was hesitant about asking me because Im the only transgender 10 in the group, and she says, What do you think of Caitlyn?  And I said, Caitlyn Jenner?  And 11 she said, Yeah.  I said, Well, Caitlyn is doing what she wants to do.  She may have waited late 12 in life, I dont think I could wait until I was in my 60s to do it. 13 
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AJ: Right. 15 
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JR: But she evidently is happy and the notoriety, shes used to it.  The Kardashians have always had 17 notoriety. 18 
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AJ: Absolutely. 20 
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JR: I think she lets some pictures out of her being with her family right after she made her unveiling 22 that were not complimentary to her because she had done her own make-up and stuff like that.  23 When you see her on stage the first time, shes had a hairdresser and had her eyes done and all 24 that extra work, and then she comes out there and her hair is not done and is frayed all over.  It 25 was not complimentary, it kind of diminished that first impression. 26 
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AJ: Right. 28 
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JR: And then you see her going to that awards dinner and shes made over again.  That roller 30 coaster up and down, thats something that shell have to either learn how to put on her own 31 make-up and stuff like that or shell have to decide to hire somebody that comes in every 32 morning and does an overhaul. 33 
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AJ: Right, well shes got the resources to do that. 35 
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JR: Shes got the money, I know.   37 
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AJ: What do you think her coming out is going to do for the trans community?  She is, by far, the 39 most famous transgender person in the world right now. 40 
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JR: Only because she was an athlete and thats what made her that famous, and then shes with the 42 Kardashians  that built her up some, that brought her a long ways up because she went into 43 that semi-retirement so you didnt see her or hear about her or when you did see her she was 44 with the family and she was just over to the side, she was a second thought. 45 
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AJ: It was, thats interesting. 47 
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JR: And now shes first thought.  There were some unkind remarks made about her, I expected it.  1 But shes a strong woman, Im sure shell do well.   2 
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AJ: Do you think that it is a positive thing for the trans community, the visibility that shes getting?  4 Its got people talking about transgender issues if nothing else.   5 
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JR: Theyre talking about theatrics. 7 
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AJ: Theatrics, did you say? 9 
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JR: Theatrics, yes.  Its all about being in the eye, being a promotional person  its not a life.  Its not 11 that everyday life  or shes dating or anything like that.  Shes got them in her backyard and she 12 has no privacy, she has no life.  And maybe shes ready for that.  Shes been with the 13 Kardashians, she knows what its about.  Im just hoping that shell hold up under it, its not an 14 easy life.   15 
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AJ: It is not.  One thing you have to give to her, though, and you alluded to this, she is beautiful. 17 
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JR: Shes not what Id call beautiful.  I cant go that far. I think shes exotic. 19 
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AJ: Exotic, OK.   21 
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JR: Exotic.  Theyve done things with her naturalness to make her more accepting as a woman, for 23 the public to accept her as a woman.  Im hoping that . . . shell probably have some other things 24 done.  From what I can tell either shes wearing a lot of body, and girls who know what Im 25 talking about, shes wearing a lot of body and I know shes had implants and things like that, 26 because she had to do it in a rush.  She waited until she was 60-some years old and she says 27 shes been on the hormones all that time.  I was on the hormones for two years and Ive got 28 quite a bit of development and that was in 1977-1979.  She was in a hurry so she went out and 29 had all this work done.  With that work comes a lot of responsibility if youve never had it 30 before, so youve got to start all over.  My mother told me, after I walked out of that hospital, 31 she said, OK, you wanted it, now let me tell you about it.  And she set me down and she talked 32 about all those women things and I said, Oh mom, I dont want to hear about that.  And she 33 said, Oh no, no, no  youre going to listen to this.  Im going to tell you about this.  You wanted 34 to be a woman, Im going to tell you about being a woman.  She started from A to Z, and its 35 something you would tell your daughter as shes coming of age. 36 
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AJ: Sure. 38 
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JR: And I was embarrassed, probably because I was 30, but I was embarrassed a little bit that she 40 was being so frank with me.  I had never really talked to my mother like that, never had any . . . 41 well, when I had my first son I was 17.  She talked about my responsibilities and I dealt with that.  42 She also told me about condoms, she called them goulashes  things like that, that I wouldnt 43 even think that she would know about.  But mother was young too.  She had me when she was 44 18, but wed never talked about it  my dad had a lot of dirty books up under the bed and Id 45 sneak in there and Id pull those books out and they had all these pictures and I was like, 46 Ohhwe.  And then when she found out I had them, it was like hell broke loose and she made 47 him throw them all away.  But I grew up with a functional alcoholic.  It was hard for my mother 48 because she didnt have a life, her children were her life because she couldnt leave the house.  1 He was never there and when he was there, he was drunk on the front room floor.  It was hard 2 for her.  She kept saying, Im getting out of this, Im getting out of it.  But she never did.  They 3 were together 50 years.  Shed gotten used to it and all of my dads friends had wives that were 4 in the same predicament.  They had a group that they ran around with, it was just them  the 5 wives, and they could talk about the things that were going on because everybody else had the 6 same thing. 7 
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AJ: So they supported each other? 9 
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JR: Yeah, yeah  very much so.   11 
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AJ: You told me about . . . you were a stripper.  Where did you work? 13 
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JR: Well the clubs are all torn down now.  I worked at the Copper Squirrel, the Saddle Bar, the 15 Roaring 20s, and thats down on Hennepin Avenue when they were there.  Theyre all parking 16 lots.  Theyre parking lots and I guess its the Lumber Exchange Building right next to it.  The 17 Little Nashville was upstairs, Cabaret was downstairs.  At the 20s, that was a gay bar, and during 18 intermission of our shows, the girls would all go down and watch the show downstairs, the drag 19 show downstairs, and I was the only trans in the group but I didnt care, I ran with the girls.  20 Wed go out afterwards and wed go to the clubs, the after parties and things like that.  Thats 21 why I never had an exposure, a real exposure, to the gay life after I found out that I lived better 22 as a woman.  So I had to take certain precautions that I didnt upset that level that I hadnt 23 gained.   24 
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AJ: Do you have a lot of cis gender friends now, or straight woman as friends? 26 
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JR: I have both actually.  And its different for me.  Ive got a couple that are post-operative that Im 28 a little closer to because we know what were talking about and certain things, emotional things 29 that were going through.  We kind of support each other.  My girlfriends, sisters, all of them  30 honey when we go to a party, we go to together.  All of us.  They dont have a problem with us, 31 we dont have a problem with them, we dont worry about them telling men that we used to be 32 male or anything like that.  Thats the whole thing.  If Im going to sleep with somebody, if I 33 really want to be with them, Im going to be honest with them.  But if I dont care about them, I 34 aint going to sleep with them and well just have a good time letting him get me drunk and 35 hoping hes going to get lucky.  It dont happen.  Once I get drunk, you get nothing.   36 
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AJ: Where do you find that you get the most support from? 38 
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JR: How do you mean support? 40 
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AJ: Support in terms of . . .  42 
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JR: And you have to forgive me, my nose is itching  its allergies because theyve got cottonwoods 44 here and Im allergic to death with them things.   45 
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AJ: Maybe my question is where do you find you get more acceptance from?  Is it men, is it women, 1 is it white women, is it Black women?  Who do you feel is most supportive of you as a trans 2 person? 3 
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JR: Well, for one I dont really look for support.  I dont really care what anybody thinks. 5 
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AJ: Got it. 7 
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JR: Im going to do what Im going to do.  As long as Im not sleeping in your bed, dont worry about 9 me.  As far as support, I have sisters  I have five sisters and were close as bed bugs in a rug.  I 10 can talk to them about anything, anybody.  I have a couple of transgender friends that Id like to 11 be as close to as I am with my sisters, namely you.  Because youre a young girl, honey.  Im close 12 to 70 . . . close to 70, but youre young.  I think you need somebody on your side that, you know, 13 if you feel down and trust me that comes in this little road of transitioning, youll get those 14 down days.  If you can reach the phone and call somebody up and just have a conversation, you 15 dont even have to talk about whats getting you depressed  just having a conversation will 16 bring you right out of it and thats what you need. 17 
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AJ: Right. 19 
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JR: And Ive had that with lots of people that have called me.  Ive even had men call me that go to 21 my church.  They have depression and its not that theyre trans, its just that theyre gay.  And 22 so I dont distinguish between any of them  if they call, Ill talk to them.   23 
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AJ: Yeah, I absolutely do have down days, there is no question about it.  But youve got to work 25 through it.   26 
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JR: You have to think positive.  My mother told me this, she says, You know, every morning you get 28 up, you go in that bathroom and you look in that mirror.  If you aint got make-up on, run and 29 get it on, then come back and say, You look good, girl, you look good.  The day is going to go 30 well for you.  But if you stand there and your hair is all over your head and the make-up is 31 rubbed up all over your eyes and your lipstick is all over the side of your face and you say, Oh, 32 girl, you aint got a chance.  You repair it, you repair it  thats what you do.  You keep yourself 33 on a certain level and its just like anybody would tell their young daughter, Youve got to keep 34 yourself up, if youre going to get a husband youve got to keep yourself up. Now when you get 35 him, eat all you want. 36 
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AJ: How does religion play a role in your life?   38 
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JR: Its always played a role in my life.  Ive always been close.  My last husband, his grandmother 40 was a minister and I thought I was going to have problems with her because nobody told her 41 about me.  I didnt even know he had a grandmother until I got this phone call one day and she 42 told me who she was and I said, I dont know you.  And she said, Well thats the way my 43 family has been to me, they have put me in the background.  But your husband is my favorite 44 grandchild.  And I said, Well, you know how we can do this?  Im having dinner tonight, why 45 dont you come over for dinner?   46 
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AJ: OK. 48 
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JR: And she said, Oh, Ive got family coming from out of town, and I dont know if you would deal 2 with them.  And I said, Whats wrong with them?  She said, Well theyre Seventh Day 3 Adventist.  And I said, Well whats wrong with that?  She said, Oh, if you dont mind, Ill 4 bring them.  And they were wonderful people, they were just wonderful  man and wife, two 5 kids.  And I got to know the grandmother and we were really close, the family turned against us 6 both because they wanted to use her.  She was a strong-willed person and we were both 7 Geminis.  Im a Gemini and she was too.  We just hit it off real well.  I was pro-her.  Anything she 8 wanted . . . my grandmother was gone, my mother was gone, I had no one to reflect upon and 9 so she would always call me up and she said, June, I need to go to the store.  Now she couldnt 10 drive worth nothing.  Shed always say, Ill come and get you.  I said, No, no, grandma  Ill 11 come and get you, because I didnt want to ride with her  she comes so close to cars that I just 12 . . . Oh, God.  When she got her cataracts fixed, I felt a lot better riding with her.  And shed get 13 lost.  Shed get lost because we lived on the north side of Chicago and she lived on the west side.  14 She didnt really get out of her neighborhood so trying to get over there shed get lost half the 15 time.  So most of the time Id show her how to get back there and then Id turn around and go 16 back home.  But we had a good relationship, we never had an argument.  I never let anybody 17 use her and she never let anybody say anything against me.   18 
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AJ: OK, thats good.  So you grew up in the church, youve been going to church. 20 
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JR: I was away from the church for 20 years.   22 
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AJ: Oh, OK. 24 
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JR: I stopped going to church because I was molested in the church.  I told my mother and she beat 26 me, she said I was a liar.  Thats what I think about children that are honest with their parents 27 and their parents dont believe them.  My mother didnt believe me until they arrested the guy 28 who was molesting me two years later  he was hanging around the schoolyard and he had 29 taken one of the children and his name appeared in the paper and what he had done.  My 30 mother looked at me and she said, I am so sorry.  I said, Its too late now, the hurt is there.  I 31 said, I still love you but you should have believed me.  Im not a known liar, it wasnt like I 32 would run around telling lies all the time.  But she couldnt believe it because she was so close to 33 that church and it was the church pastors son.   34 
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AJ: Wow. 36 
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JR: And I said, OK.  We didnt talk about it ever again, but there was a hurt there.  So I know how 38 children are when theyre being taken advantage of and the parents dont believe them.  Its 39 hard for them, and then how do you trust your parents when they wont believe you.  That trust 40 issue comes in.  I had an incident with my grandson.  This guy was threatening to beat him up, 41 he was only five years old.  But my grandson was stealing his flowers out of his yard.  I knew this 42 person and I happened to go by his house one day and he said, I have the awfulest time, this 43 nasty little boy, hes coming over here and stealing my flowers.  And I said, Oh, and he said 44 some unkind things about him.  I said, Where does he live?  Well my grandson lived four 45 houses down and he said, If I catch him over here again, Im kicking his butt.  And I said, No, I 46 dont think youre going to do that.  And he said, Why?  I said, Thats my grandson, you 47 dont put your hands on my child in no kind of way.  I said, You might call me up and tell me 48 hes stealing your flowers and Ill take care of him, but you wont ever put your hands on him 1 because you dont want me to put my hands on you because I know I can put my hands on you.   2 
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AJ: Wow.  Did that end that?   4 
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JR: Yes, it did.  I made my grandson come over and apologize for taking his flowers, although he had 6 a bunch of them flowers in his hand.  And he said, Big Mama, Im so sorry.  I said, I know 7 baby, but dont worry about him hitting you.  If he hits you Im going to hit him and he aint 8 going to like that.  And we never had a problem from him anymore.   9 
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AJ: Wow.   11 
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JR: Now weve gotten to the teen years.   13 
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AJ: Oh boy.  Has being transgender had any impact on your professional life at all, do you think? 15 
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JR: On my professional life?  No.  I had goals and I achieved all my goals.  I wanted to be a 17 hairdresser, I had a beauty shop for 10 years.  I had a chefs certificate, I worked as a cook for 18 many years and then I gave it up and I worked for the railroad for five years.  I gave that up and I 19 went back to dancing and then I gave that up because it had turned into a cesspool and I didnt 20 like what was happening there then.  And so I went back to . . . I think I went back to cooking 21 and then I moved to Chicago.  I thought I was going to cook there but when I got there all my 22 credentials said that I was a manager so I started out working in hospitals there as a manager.  23 Everywhere I went I was a manager.  I came back here and everywhere I went I was a manager  24 either in nursing homes and restaurants, things like that.  So I made my goals.  As a friend of 25 mine said, Ive had my 15 minutes of fame.  I thought she was trying to be rude to me.  I said, 26 15 minutes of fame doesnt mean anything to me because I wasnt working towards the fame, I 27 was working towards making sure I had a living.  Because times come when you dont have a 28 job and its hard to find one.  But if you have all these careers behind you, youre going to find a 29 job somewhere.  She thought because I was going to do an interview with you, thats your 15 30 minutes of fame.  I dont want 15 minutes of fame, I want to shed all this information to people 31 that can use it  use it for their benefit.  Ive already used it, its already been beneficial to me.  I 32 want them to have it and if they need any more of it, they can always call me for it.   33 
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AJ: And we deeply appreciate you for doing that too, Mama June.  Is there anything else you would 35 like to share with people who might be able to use this information?   36 
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JR: Keep your mind open.  Its not with the people youre with but what you want in your life, 38 because you got a long life and choose something thats going to be good for you.  It may seem 39 not good for you now, What am I going to do with this?  What am I going to do with that?  You 40 never know when youll need it, youll always have something to fall back on.  People say, Well, 41 Ill just take this one job and Ill do it all my life.  It gets boring  it gets boring, you lose your job 42 and you may not be able to get a job for 10 or 20 months, something like that.  But if you have 43 another job that you can fall back on, always choose something you can always go into  44 hairdressing . . . even though I dont have a license anymore, I can call somebody up and say, 45 Girl, you want your hair done?  Come on over, Ill give you a color  youve been needing a 46 color.  Things like that.  But I can hustle me some money without going up on Lake Street.  47 There has to be something that these girls that are going up on Lake Street . . . and not all the 48 girls do, but a large percentage of them do and it makes them vulnerable to these people that 1 dont like the idea of transgender people.  And transgender people, like anybody else, have the 2 right to live.   3 
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AJ: Absolutely. 5 
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JR: And so if you have some way of not having to do all that work up on . . . flat backing everywhere, 7 I tell them, Honey, your back is for sleeping, get you a job.  Id even take a bus boy job if its 8 going to give me something to pay my rent for a few months.  But they think, Oh, thats below 9 me.  Well anything below you is the bed  get out there and get a job, whatever it is.  Ive 10 worked as a maid in hotels, that was cute too  all those strange men in town.  All those things, 11 they will give you opportunities.  All you have to do is get your behind out of bed in the morning.  12 I hate these people that wait until two or three oclock in the afternoon and go look for a job.  I 13 told my grandson, I said, Youve been there six years, when you go look for another job, dont 14 call me at 12:00 in the afternoon saying, Im going to look for a job, because it aint going to 15 work.  I said, Get your butt up at six oclock, take your bath, do all the manly things you have 16 to do and go out there and get you a job at eight or nine oclock in the morning because theyre 17 going to appreciate you being there at eight or nine oclock in the morning and theyre going to 18 look favorably upon you.  Youre going to be clean cut and I dont want to see now dragging 19 pants, I dont have that.  I said, I buy you decent clothes, I want you to look decent when you 20 go there.  And hes always had a job.  I had something through Hennepin County here where I 21 trained young people, young offenders, to become kitchen managers.  For five years I ran that at 22 the church.  They all got their certification, they all got jobs in kitchens.  You can always get a 23 job, all you have to have is that certification.  My last student, the first job interview he went on, 24 he got it.  All you have to do is tell these people is, I tried to learn, I put myself out there to 25 make myself more valuable to you and will you hire me?  I give all my students a years 26 reference because the class is a year, thats all they want.  I did it when I was in Chicago.  Ive 27 met Black men that lived in the projects.  I had a young man who is now a . . . he works at a 28 Montessori school there, hes the food service director there, and hed never had a job because 29 he had lived too long at his address and they felt that he wasnt going to stay on a job so they 30 never gave him a job.  I looked at him and said, Baby, do you really want to work?  Hes a 31 tremendous cook.  I said, If you follow my directions, Ill get you a job.  It just so happened I 32 took a job with this company and they needed cooks and I hired him and his sisters.  Theyre 33 now all supervising and hes a director of dietary. 34 
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AJ: Wow. 36 
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JR: And thats what I like seeing.  I dont need any praise for it, I look at them and I see how far 38 theyve come from living in the gang-infested building where theyre living in nice apartments in 39 the suburbs of Chicago and things like that.  Theyve got nice cars, the kids are grown and things 40 like that  thats what I feel good about.   41 
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AJ: Yes.  Well, Mama June you are truly an inspiration to me and Im sure to many, many other 43 people.  I just want to thank you for taking this time to share a little bit of your story, a little bit 44 of your life and your history.  I think well come back and film some more.   45 
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JR: All right.  You better take some of them rolls with you.  My doctor aint going to tell me my sugar 47 is up.   48 
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AJ: All right.  Wow.   2 

