 
 
 
 
Reneka Evans Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
    
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
 August 21, 2016 
 
 
 

   
 
  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
 
 
 
 
  
Andrea Jenkins  -AJ 1 
Reneka Evans  -RE 2 
 3 
 4 
AJ: So, hello. 5 
RE: Hi Andrea. 6 
AJ: My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the oral historian for the Transgender Oral History Project 7 at the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  Today is August 21, 2016, and I am in 8 St. Paul with Ms. Reneka Evans.  Reneka, how are you doing today? 9 
RE: Im doing great, how are you? 10 
AJ: Im doing really good.  Man, its so good to just be in your space and be in your presence.  Ive 11 been knowing you for such a long time. 12 
RE: Yes. 13 
AJ: So Im looking forward to digging a little deeper and getting to know you a little bit better. 14 
RE: OK. 15 
AJ: So why dont you start off, Reneka, by just stating your name  spell your name, just so we make 16 sure we have it spelled right and tell me your gender assigned at birth and your gender identity 17 as you describe yourself today and what pronouns you use. 18 
RE: OK, well thats a lot. 19 
AJ: Thats a lot. 20 
RE: OK, so Reneka Evans.  Reneka, R-e-n-e-k-a, Evans, E-v-a-n-s.  Gender today, I am female post-op 21 transsexual.  Born male.   22 
AJ: OK, thank you dear.  Thank you so much.  So Reneka, just to kind of get us going, our memory 23 bank going, can you tell me what your earliest memory in life is? 24 
RE: My earliest memory . . . well, playing jacks at my moms house. 25 
AJ: Is that right? 26 
RE: Yes, on the porch. 27 
AJ: By yourself? 28 
RE: No, with a group of girls.  I always had to be the winner, it just wouldnt be right if I . . . 29 
AJ: So you were playing jacks with a bunch of girls.  So you were hanging out with the girls . . . about 30 how old do you think this was? 31 
RE: I think about five years old.   32 
AJ: Where did you grow up? 1 
RE: In Memphis, Tennessee. 2 
AJ: Is that right?  Born and raised? 3 
RE: Born and raised. 4 
AJ: Wow, what was it like in Memphis? 5 
RE: In the 1970s and 1980s, it was good.  Out, everyone had an idea of what was going to happen  6 very flamboyant, friendly, interested in everything female. 7 
AJ: Thats you? 8 
RE: Yes, so they saw it coming. 9 
AJ: Really? 10 
RE: Yeah, they saw that. 11 
AJ: So you were very expressive about your gender identity as a young person? 12 
RE: Right, right.  Im not sure if it was being accepted at the time, but being ignored.  I havent 13 figured out yet which one it was. 14 
AJ: But nobody really messed with you? 15 
RE: No, not a big deal . . . just . . .  16 
AJ: Even in school? 17 
RE: Well thats a whole other thing, because I was still thinking about young, young.  So now were 18 going to school age.  Elementary was good, junior high  thats where the concerns started.   19 
AJ: Really? 20 
RE: Yeah.  But I have a brother that is a year older than myself and he paved the way for the peace.  21 There was a little friction but not a whole lot. 22 
AJ: Not a whole lot.  How many brothers and sisters do you have? 23 
RE: Oh, thats a good question.  My mom had five kids before she married my dad and my mom and 24 dad together had two kids, and my dad had kids before he married my mom.  So, he has 12.  So 25 the family . . .  26 
AJ: Oh wow.  You come from a big, big family.  Whats family reunions like? 27 
RE: Well theyre in several different places  six people in Memphis and the other ones here in 28 Minnesota.  29 
AJ: When did you move to Minnesota? 30 
RE: When?  In 1991.   31 
AJ: What brought you here? 1 
RE: My dad  daddys little girl.   2 
AJ: Right.  Wow, daddys little girl.  Im hearing that and Im thinking is your dad . . . was your dad 3 OK with your transition then? 4 
RE: My dad was very OK with it, which was almost shocking but he has always been wrapped into 5 my sports, education, so when I started to transition he was on board.   6 
AJ: Really? 7 
RE: Yes, I have told this story a thousand times . . .  8 
AJ: OK, tell it one more time. 9 
RE: Yes, I have to say it again  I love it.  He supported me in my first pageant.  It was at the Gay 90s, 10 it was in the 1990s  around the 1990s  yeah, very supportive.  I did Natalie Cole, I Love and 11 he watched me practice lip sync.  He would tell me, No, it doesnt look like youre singing it  12 nope, it doesnt look like youre singing.  When I finally got it right he was like, OK, now you 13 can fool me.   14 
AJ: So he was there for rehearsals. 15 
RE: Oh yeah. 16 
AJ: Came to the show. 17 
RE: No, he didnt come to the show, but he helped me get prepared to perform. 18 
AJ: Wow, he loves his baby.  I love it  is your dad still alive? 19 
RE: Hes not, hes deceased. 20 
AJ: Oh, Im sorry to hear that.  So you had all these brothers and sisters growing up, youre in the 21 south  Memphis, thats like the Bible Belt. 22 
RE: It is . . . it is. 23 
AJ: Did you grow up in a religious household? 24 
RE: Well, we attended church, we were religious but not like . . . 25 
AJ: Ultra . . .  26 
RE: Right, not over the top.  But yeah, we attended church every Sunday.   27 
AJ: But church was a part of your life but it wasnt dominating your life, so to speak. 28 
RE: Right, it was a part of my life.  But the more I was able to read and understand, the more 29 challenging religious views would come into . . . it got a little more complicated when I was able 30 to read by myself and understand for myself.  So the mixed messages that I was receiving made 31 it a lot challenging.  So today, Im going to say out loud, I do believe in a higher power and Im 32 spiritual above religion  whatever that may mean. 33 
AJ: So no formal religion but you feel connected to spirit. 1 
RE: Yes, connected to spirit and Baptist, but I allow my spiritual side to . . . Im not going to use the 2 word dominate, but be the umbrella. 3 
AJ: Sure.  Im just looking at your hair  its so beautiful.  Im going to go off-script a little bit and ask 4 you how long youve been locking your hair? 5 
RE: How have I been locking it? 6 
AJ: How long have you been locking it? 7 
RE: Were working on six years. 8 
AJ: Is that right?  Its beautiful.  Awesome. 9 
RE: And the silver has been there since I was 25. 10 
AJ: Is that right?  So you embraced the silver? 11 
RE: I did, it took a little practice but . . . yeah. 12 
AJ: Its gorgeous.   13 
RE: Thank you.  14 
AJ: So you talked a little bit about your dad, how is your mom with your transition? 15 
RE: OK, so thats interesting that you asked that question.  My mom had a tougher time with it than 16 my dad.  When I was younger, we used to hang out  me and my mom used to hang out all the 17 time.  But when I got older and decided to be myself and kind of detach and do my own thing  18 yeah, it was a little more challenging to . . . Im not going to say break away, but do my own 19 thing basically. 20 
AJ: Did she ever come around? 21 
RE: Yes, yes  she has her moments but the answer would be yes. 22 
AJ: So the bottom line is, you guys have a relationship now? 23 
RE: We do, oh yeah  we have a great relationship.  Were in love.   24 
AJ: She supports you. 25 
RE: Yeah, I just finished talking to her before you arrived. 26 
AJ: Is that right? 27 
RE: Oh yeah.  Hey mom, were doing good. 28 
AJ: Where does your mom live? 29 
RE: Shes in Memphis, Tennessee. 30 
AJ: Shes in Memphis.  Do you ever go visit? 31 
RE: Yes, and Ill be going Labor Day weekend. 1 
AJ: Is that right?  So next weekend  or a couple of weekends, not far away. 2 
RE: And then again at Christmas. 3 
AJ: Oh wow, thats beautiful.  So you are definitely connected to your family and have a strong . . . 4 what do you think that connection does for transgender people, in your opinion?  To be 5 connected to your family in that kind of way. 6 
RE: OK, so being connected to your family in a healthy way, obviously I think thats great.  I think 7 that, in my experience with some of my friends, they want to be connected with their families 8 but theyre giving away a lot of themselves to be connected. 9 
AJ: Hmmm  yeah. 10 
RE: And that was something I was thinking about with my relationship with my family, how much of 11 myself do I want to give away to make someone else comfortable, to have a relationship with 12 them? 13 
AJ: Yeah, thats a big question.  14 
RE: And so, not that much.  Im not giving up that much.   15 
AJ: Oh man.  So, youre able to be yourself and still be in relationship with your family. 16 
RE: Yeah, and it goes back to keeping your power and being me, just being upfront about who I am, 17 what Im doing, so that no one can tell them anything about me that they dont already know.   18 
AJ: Right, thats key.   19 
RE: Yes. 20 
AJ: Wow.  So, what terms do you use to describe yourself today and how has that changed over 21 time?  You mentioned you used to do pageants and drag performance, did you ever identify as a 22 drag queen? 23 
RE: I did.  When I was a drag queen I identified as a drag queen  which is interesting because that 24 was in the 1990s.  And then as I transitioned and moved into working as a female in everyday 25 life, like employment . . .  26 
AJ: Full-time. 27 
RE: Yeah, full-time. Then I identified as transsexual and now that Im post-op, I identify as female  28 woman. 29 
AJ: Wow, thats beautiful.  Let me ask you this question, and its kind of a challenging . . . not 30 challenging question, but its always been interesting to me that in the Black, sort-of, trans 31 community, particularly the timeframe that you identified  1980s, 1990s, and Im sure even 32 prior to that, Black girls always referred to themselves as queens, even if they were trans.  It 33 seems like that was the community where Black trans people sort of grew up in and then got 34 
support in, whats your thoughts about that and is that a true statement that you think Im 1 making?  Or is that something that Im kind of reaching for the stars? 2 
RE: About African American . . .? 3 
AJ: African Americans coming out of sort of the drag community versus white trans people just sort 4 of coming out of a more . . . certainly from a more privileged position, but seemingly Black 5 people tend to transition earlier in life and come out of that sort of club and drag space.  I dont 6 know.  Is that . . .? 7 
RE: When you say come out, that they come out to be themselves and just embrace the gay 8 community? 9 
AJ: When I say come out I mean coming to the understanding that they are transgender but really 10 identifying strongly with the drag community and embracing terms like tranny and queen and . . 11 . you know.  I dont know, I guess Im maybe being . . . that was kind of my experience and I 12 guess Im just asking did you feel that same way? 13 
RE: In my head Im thinking that maybe that is something that has a glam to it.  My very first 14 experience with seeing, not meeting but seeing, a drag queen on stage was like, Oh my gosh, I 15 want to be just like her. 16 
AJ: Right.  OK. 17 
RE: They had the beauty thing going and this gorgeous evening gown, make-up on perfect.  Just very 18 pretty and fun.  And hair done and everyone is clapping and giving them money.  And so its like, 19 OK, thats what I want to be when I grow up.  I think being a queen, really . . . even if you were 20 raised in a place where you didnt feel like you were a queen, when you self-identified as a 21 queen and your friends call you a queen, at some point you say it long enough  you feel like a 22 queen.  Yeah. 23 
AJ: No, thanks for that.  The younger trans generation nowadays, they are really upset when people 24 use the word tranny.  I know that there are some negative connotations to that but when I first 25 was coming out, that was a term of endearment  thats what we called each other in loving and 26 respectful ways.  Did you ever use that kind of language at all?   27 
RE: I stayed away from it because my experience was . . . 28 
AJ: You were always such a lady.   29 
RE: . . . was with Back Page and tranny and he/shes and she/hes and all those things, layboys.  And 30 always would come back to be sex only.  With the tranny thing, most of the time it was used to 31 indicate sexual something.  So I just kind of stayed away from that and just said, Im a lady, Im 32 a woman.  I almost said, Hear me roar. 33 
AJ: Come on  own your power.  What challenges have you faced since you began expressing your 34 gender identity, Reneka?   35 
RE: So in the beginning, employment - before I changed my name  completely changed my name, 36 employment was a concern. 37 
AJ: Did you have some bad, negative experiences? 1 
RE: I had to do a lot of adjusting  let me give you an example.  So Im not blowing my whistle or 2 nothing, but early on being passable, like when Id go to the Social Security Office and I still had 3 my male name and ID, the whole nine yards, when they would call that name I would never 4 stand up, I would never raise my hand, I would never acknowledge it because I didnt want to 5 out myself.  So what I would do is wait until they got down a couple more names and then Id go 6 to the counter and say, Oh, I was right here, I didnt hear you call my name.  And then at the 7 counter they would say, Whats your name?  And I would just tell them, obviously very low, 8 who I am so I wouldnt out myself.  So I did a lot of things, went the extra mile, to not out myself 9 and cause myself problems later on. 10 
AJ: Sure.  But you were able to get jobs? 11 
RE: I did, I did.  Come to find out . . . I wont be saying that name, but I think in France or somewhere 12 it can also be a girls name.  And so I never did embrace it, I wont be, but I found out its not as 13 bad as I thought it was.   14 
AJ: OK, so it could have been a gender neutral name. 15 
RE: Well, in the United States its not but outside the United States. 16 
AJ: OK, wow. Thats interesting.  Any other challenges beyond sort of that . . .  17 
RE: No, I think I tried to stay straight forward and be honest with other people, along with myself 18 because as we know, not being honest about who you are can cause a lot of problems. 19 
AJ: Absolutely. 20 
RE: It could . . . yeah. 21 
AJ: When is the first time you realized that you were not the gender you were assigned at birth? 22 
RE: I dont think I actually knew.  I knew that I didnt want to be a boy, but I didnt know that . . . so 23 as a kid I dont think I was bright enough to figure out, This is not the gender that I want to be, 24 but I just . . .  25 
AJ: None of us are. 26 
RE: Right.  I really wanted to do all the girl things, not necessarily saying I wanted to re-assign 27 anything  just do all the girly things possible.  But, later on, after realizing Id be able to do a re-28 assignment surgery, that I identified sexually as . . . Im going to enjoy gay sex while I have my 29 penis, because its not going to be here anymore.  So then I started acknowledging its there, Im 30 going to enjoy it while its here and it will be over soon so enjoy it now.  So thats kind of . . . 31 
AJ: So there was a time when you identified as a gay person, a gay male? 32 
RE: No.  I enjoyed gay sex. 33 
AJ: Right, you never identified . . . I got it.  And thats a big distinction.   34 
RE: Yeah, and it was not very long.  I think it was something that I embraced so that I can just be OK 1 where Im at today and say I transitioned to where I actually wanted to be at.   2 
AJ: So you are involved with men but you arent the aggressor, I would assume. 3 
RE: In that phase I was all kinds of stuff going on.   4 
AJ: OK, all right. 5 
RE: Are you asking me was I a top or a bottom?  Is that the question? 6 
AJ: Yeah. 7 
RE: OK, so at that point I was versatile.   8 
AJ: Versatile  OK, cool.  Thats cool, thats whats up.  We have these bodies, we do need to enjoy 9 our bodies to the fullest extent.  I personally think we should embrace our whole selves, and 10 thats the whole point of coming out, right?  For a long time in my life I was denying my feminine 11 identity but I was able to get over that and keep it moving.  What has been some of the positive 12 aspects since you have decided to express your true gender identity? 13 
RE: So there is a difference pre- and post-, most definitely there is a difference.  My self-esteem is 14 way higher.   15 
AJ: OK. 16 
RE: The confidence, much higher  on all levels, on anything that you can think of its . . . yeah, much 17 higher.   18 
AJ: So education, employment. 19 
RE: Yeah.  I was able to go back to school, my career level is much higher than it was before I 20 transitioned.  Yeah. 21 
AJ: Awesome.  What work do you do right now? 22 
RE: So, I am a community educator and we can narrow that down.  Today I am a transgender and 23 HIV specialist.   24 
AJ: Where do you work? 25 
RE: I work for the county at The Red Door.   26 
AJ: So Hennepin County? 27 
RE: Yes, Hennepin County, The Red Door.   28 
AJ: OK, wow.  Thats a pretty good job. 29 
RE: Yes, it is. 30 
AJ: Job title with the word transgender in it.   31 
RE: Yes, yes. 32 
AJ: So youre a professional transgender woman now.   1 
RE: I am, I am.   2 
AJ: Oh man, youve got to love it.  You keep saying pre- and post- and Im not quite sure everybody 3 who watches this is going to understand what pre- and post- is.  So, my question is, to the extent 4 that you feel comfortable, Reneka, talk to me about what medical interventions you have 5 undergone since your . . . as a part of your transition? 6 
RE: So, Ill give you the basic.  I only received bottom surgery.  Top surgery, hormone assisted . . . 7 that pretty much sums it up. 8 
AJ: So gender re-assignment surgery. 9 
RE: Yeah, gender re-assignment.  I was trying to keep it real basic.   10 
AJ: Thats perfect, thats beautiful.  And thats what youre saying, Post-. 11 
RE: Yes. 12 
AJ: Where did you have your surgery done? 13 
RE: Trinidad, Colorado.   14 
AJ: By Dr. . . .? 15 
RE: Bowers. 16 
AJ: Oh Marci. 17 
RE: Marci Bowers, yes.   18 
AJ: Oh cool.  How did that work out?  Was it good?  Was it a good experience? 19 
RE: Well, it was a very interesting experience.  So I built a really good relationship with her staff and 20 then when I arrived, me and Dr. Bowers, we connected  it was good.  I just had a concern after 21 the surgery, all of a sudden it was a complete disconnection, which that didnt work as well for 22 me.  Because now I have all these questions.  I have new body parts that are totally different . . . 23 
AJ: And I need some help understanding this. 24 
RE: Right, right.  And so although there were staff there to support me, Dr. Bowers was no longer 25 there.  And so, that made the very beginning of the recovery a little challenging because I would 26 ask a question and someone would have to go and ask her the question.  There was no more 27 direct contact after the surgery, it was . . . so, as far as the surgery was concerned, it went well 28 just the part of the recovery . . .  29 
AJ: The relationship part . . . 30 
RE: Yeah, the relationship part and knowing that she just changed someones life in so many 31 different ways and then youre gone.  So yeah.  But everything worked well, great relationship. 32 
AJ: You happy with the operation? 33 
RE: Im happy, yes. 1 
AJ: Having good sex. 2 
RE: Im having sex.  Just keeping it real. 3 
AJ: Oh wow.  Do you orgasms? 4 
RE: I do.   5 
AJ: Wow. 6 
RE: Yes, I do. 7 
AJ: So she does a good job.  I know Dr. Bowers too.  Wow, thats pretty extensive medical 8 interventions. 9 
RE: Oh yeah. 10 
AJ: If you dont mind me asking, Reneka, how much did it cost? 11 
RE: OK, so with Minnesota, I had Minnesota Care.  So those guys godfathered me in, out-of-pocket 12 for self was only $5,000 and then the State picked up the rest of the bill. 13 
AJ: Your $5,000 was that for travel and . . .  14 
RE: It was for travel expenses and some of the medications I had to get.   15 
AJ: Yes.  Wow, so Minnesota Care helped to support that  thats great.  16 
RE: Yes.  They no longer . . . 17 
AJ: Really? 18 
RE: Oh no, not at all.  At that point they did.   19 
AJ: Hmmm, wow.  OK. 20 
RE: And Im not really sure the reason why but thats how I was godfathered in  because I was 21 already doing treatments and seeing a therapist. 22 
AJ: Right.  Where did you go to therapy?   23 
RE: U of M, the University of Minnesota. 24 
AJ: Oh, at the Program in Human Sexuality. 25 
RE: Yes, Dr. Bockting.   26 
AJ: Yeah, yeah. 27 
RE: I havent been asked that question in a long time.   28 
AJ: Thats awesome.  So, youve had the surgery . . . how long ago was that?   29 
RE: Its been about 10 years. 30 
AJ: Is that right?  Cool.  So looking back on your decision to express your true gender identity and to 1 have surgery, how do you feel today?  Any regrets or . . .? 2 
RE: Any regrets?  No.  You know what?  Ive been asked that question before and I keep coming up 3 with no, theres nothing that I could think of that I would have changed. 4 
AJ: Its a beautiful thing.   5 
RE: Yes. 6 
AJ: Looking back over your life, Reneka, is there any one person or persons that have had a 7 significant impact on your decision to really move forward with your transition?  Was there . . . I 8 dont know, a role model or somebody who had a really big impact on you? 9 
RE: So my answer would be no on that as far as the transition is concerned, but there have been 10 some really great mentors in my life that have allowed me to move on and be self and be 11 comfortable with self  like in the 1980s, I had a supervisor.  Am I able to give her name?  Its 12 kind of a shout out. 13 
AJ: If you want, sure  no, please. 14 
RE: Jeanette Tony.  She was real sweet.  And at that point in my life it was my second job and I really 15 didnt have an adult that I felt I could be real comfortable around.  She just embraced me, didnt 16 really care what I was going through  she was just there to help me.  So she, as far as 17 employment, was the first person that actually was able to give me a push and say, You know 18 what?  Youre smart.  I was insecure about a lot of stuff and she was like, Oh no, you know 19 how to do this, this is perfect for you  this is perfect. So that was one person.  And then I have 20 my sister, Dolores, that embraced me no matter what.  No matter what shes always cheering 21 me on.  There is a few more  one more, Gwendolyn Velez. 22 
AJ: Oh wow. 23 
RE: Yes, yes.  She is my work mother and she would always make sure Im on the right track and 24 help me out, teach me a lot of different things on how to take care of business.   25 
AJ: Wow, you mentioned Gwendolyn Velez, we both actually worked together on a project with 26 Gwen Velez at the African American AIDS Task Force.  Remember?  The trans . . . what did we 27 call it?  I dont know . . . 28 
RE: It was a unity . . . it was a Trans Unity Summit. 29 
AJ: Summit  yeah. 30 
RE: The Trans Unity Summit. 31 
AJ: That was a beautiful thing.  We would bring some people together and build some community 32 and create some space for people.  Great.  Talk to me a little bit about relationships and love.  33 How has your gender identity impacted your ability to be in relationship?  Or has it?   34 
RE: No, it hasnt been a really big change.  Its not day and night.  Its a sign of my craziness. 35 
AJ: So from what I . . . so youve been in relationships all your life and nothing really changed after 1 the surgery? 2 
RE: No, because I think that I was actually . . . Im just going to say no.  I dont want to speak on 3 someone elses personal preference or air someone elses business, so Im going to just say that 4 . . . yeah, Ive had some good relationships. 5 
AJ: Heres the thing though . . . I know that some men . . . do you date men or women? 6 
RE: Men. 7 
AJ: Some men are really intrigued with the transgender body that still has both male genitals or 8 whatever, and then post-transition, theyre like, This is not what I . . . 9 
RE: Im not up with it.  Yeah. 10 
AJ: Have you ever experienced that?  You dont have to say anybodys name. 11 
RE: Right, thats when Im thinking that the people that I have dated . . . like boys and girls.   12 
AJ: So it wasnt a big deal. 13 
RE: Right, right. 14 
AJ: Good.  Are you in a relationship now? 15 
RE: No. 16 
AJ: Single? 17 
RE: Single. 18 
AJ: Are you looking to get married? 19 
RE: Looking to get married one day, yes. 20 
AJ: One day  cool.  Wow.  When have there been times when someone has been really, really 21 helpful or really insensitive related to, like, medical personnel or college.  I know you said youre 22 finishing up your bachelors degree right now, or the criminal justice system.  Have you had 23 problems with any of these kind of institutions? 24 
RE: So, working in this field when I was in Memphis we had a component helping a transgender 25 woman not do time in isolation and release them to the program and teach them about safer 26 sex, HIV, doing testing, support groups.  But one of my concerns is the justice system not 27 acknowledging the fact that theyre actually housing transgender individuals to even participate 28 in the program.  So just going to the county and asking them, Do you have any transgender 29 people? and receiving a no. 30 
AJ: Right, they would say no and you would know . . .  31 
RE: Right, and I know.  I know everybody in there and all their names but youre still telling me that 32 that person is not transgender?  But, you acknowledge it enough to isolate them from the 33 community but you dont recognize it enough to admit to a person here to support them, that 1 yes theyre here.  So I was a little frustrated with that. 2 
AJ: How did you guys overcome that?  Or were you able to overcome that?   3 
RE: Well, having a persons contact information as they would go into the jail and they have my 4 contact information.  So when they have court, then I will show up on their court date.  And 5 then at that point, if the judge asked them any questions or gave them an opportunity to speak, 6 then they would ask me to speak on their behalf as far as the program was concerned.  So thats 7 how us being able to introduce the program to the justice system.  Other than that  yeah.   8 
AJ: Wow.  So a roundabout way that I have experienced some . . .  9 
RE: Some harassments or challenges, friction. 10 
AJ: Yeah  challenges, friction.  But what about personally in the criminal justice . . .  11 
RE: Oh, this isnt the place.  Lets see.  No, not really.   12 
AJ: OK.  I think I know the answer to this question but have you ever been incarcerated?   13 
RE: No. 14 
AJ: I didnt think so, but you never know.  When is the first time you ever met a trans identified 15 person and how did that impact you? 16 
RE: Trans person . . . first one.  OK, give me a second  I have to dig on that one.  Im not really sure . 17 . . as far as meeting . . . seeing is one, but meeting one.  I think it was one of my girlfriends that I 18 came out with.  I wasnt really hanging out with any transgender people, but thats the ones that 19 I knew were showgirls.   20 
AJ: Right. 21 
RE: And I really didnt personally know them.  I would see them doing the show and then they 22 would disappear because they were going to the cars or whatever they were doing, and then Id 23 go along with my friends.  Im thinking that me and my friends were kind of like the first 24 transgender person that we met among ourselves.   25 
AJ: Oh wow. 26 
RE: Does that make sense? 27 
AJ: Yeah, that totally makes sense.  Who was that?  Do you remember? 28 
RE: Shayla Richardson.  Do you remember her? 29 
AJ: I dont.  Is she . . . was she here in the Twin Cities? 30 
RE: Yes, yes.  Fun girl, fun girl.   31 
AJ: Really?  Oh wow.  She moved away? 32 
RE: Yes, shes in Seattle.   33 
AJ: OK. 1 
RE: Shayla was one  I would say that shes the first one actually.   2 
AJ: OK, and you guys became very good friends. 3 
RE: Yes, for a very long time  and were still friends, not just on Facebook but we talk to each other.   4 
AJ: Awesome.  How did you come out to your family and friends?  Did you just sit people down and 5 tell them?  Did you write a letter?  What did you do? 6 
RE: No, no  this was an easy transition.  It was two-fold.   7 
AJ: She said it was easy. 8 
RE: Yeah, yeah  because remember I was already doing the splits and flips and playing jacks.  9 Remember? So either they were ignoring it or they had already acknowledged it.  So, there 10 wasnt a big jumping out of a cake type of thing, it was more . . . so my dad first saw me dressed, 11 it was Christmas many years ago  maybe 1993.  I just showed up as Reneka. 12 
AJ: At the house? 13 
RE: At the house with all the family there on Christmas.   14 
AJ: Did they give you your presents or did they take them back? 15 
RE: Well, I was embraced.  I dont know what happened when I left the party but . . . 16 
AJ: Who cares?   17 
RE: Right, right, right. 18 
AJ: You dont know whats going to happen when you walk out . . .  19 
RE: Right, yes.  So it was fine while I was there but I dont know how it worked out later. Everything 20 was good.  I didnt get any flack or whatever.  For my mom, since I didnt hardly ever wear 21 make-up, I didnt have any make-up on so I just, Hi.  It wasnt like I had to jump a hoop or 22 anything, they were OK. 23 
AJ: Wow.  So it wasnt like a formal, Mom, I need to tell you something.   24 
RE: No, not at all.  Once again, I think they saw it coming.   25 
AJ: Did you have boyfriends when you were growing up? 26 
RE: I did, I did.  I can actually say this persons name, this guy named Alex.  We were first boyfriends, 27 in Memphis.  He used to sing to me all the time, it was a great relationship.  Were still friends  28 we dated twice before we said, OK, were done.   29 
AJ: Right.  But they used to come around your family and that kind of stuff?  30 
RE: Yes. 31 
AJ: Wow.  You were going to ask me something or you were going to tell me something now and I 32 stopped you, Im so sorry. 33 
RE: No, no.   1 
AJ: OK, its all good.  What do you think the relationship is between the L, the G, the B and the T, 2 Reneka?   3 
RE: Well, I think those letters are doing a little bit too much to begin with.  Theres forever and 4 always a letter being added, switched around, everyone in the group is being ignored and 5 everybody wants to be first.  But, the and T with the Q, so lets address the and T first.   6 
AJ: OK. 7 
RE: I think transgender is always tacked on to the end, we seem like were not the article, were 8 always the footnotes. 9 
AJ: Wow, thats interesting.   10 
RE: Were never in the article.   I dont know, it just seems detached.  In the transgender community 11 we have so much going on under the T, they may need to start some more letters actually.  They 12 need to start . . . because there is a whole other list of letters that goes under the umbrella of 13 the T.  14 
AJ: Absolutely  gender queer, gender non-confirming, gender fucked, gender this, that and the 15 other thing.  Yeah.   16 
RE: Yeah, and then the Q, to me just seems like its kind of an attachment to the T.  Oh, and you 17 can also add, if you have time, the Q people.   18 
AJ: Right.  Queer, right? 19 
RE: Yeah, the queer people.   20 
AJ: So, do you think theres friction between those?  Kind of the way youre talking it sounds like 21 you feel like there is a little friction or that, like you said, the T is an afterthought.  You know, 22 Oh yeah, well just add this on.   23 
RE: Right.  I think for a long time transgender people have always been clumped with drag queens, 24 or identified as drag queens and not necessarily having their own identity.  At some point, 25 transgender or drag queens were strictly entertainment purposes and no one would take them 26 seriously.  Once youre off-stage, youre . . . 27 
AJ: Youre like a nobody. 28 
RE: Right, youre back to being a gay boy.  That wasnt for everyone.  I think that for years the 29 transgender community havent been properly identified or acknowledged.  You know, This is 30 my life, this is who I am.  And some people just see them as entertainment or a character. 31 
AJ: Wow. 32 
RE: Until recently we have learned to sort that out, there is a difference between this and that and 33 you dont have to be this to be that.  You dont have to hold on to that if you want to . . . you can 34 let that go if you need to.  I like that a lot, that people are opening up and allowing people to be 35 themselves.  You dont have to build a relationship with a gender.  You dont have to have a 36 label  you can be who you want to and if you dont want to be no gender, thats fine too.  I love 1 that. 2 
AJ: I love it too.  I love it.  I think a lot of people are saying, You know what?  Im a woman but I 3 dont want to have surgery.  And thats acceptable now days.  So, Im sure youve heard of 4 Caitlyn Jenner. 5 
RE: OK, yes. 6 
AJ: And Laverne Cox and Janet Mock and all of these sort of superstar transgender people 7 nowadays, which is creating a lot of visibility for celebrities but what do you think that means for 8 just regular old everyday trans people that get up and go to work in the morning like you and 9 me?  Do you think that that has any relevance on our lives? 10 
RE: I do.  What Im thinking is that for someone in their 30s and 40s, maybe/maybe not.  But for the 11 younger people to be able to actually see someone that is transgender looking just like me, 12 whether its male to female or female to male.  I think it helps.  When I was younger I ran track 13 and my person was Wilma Rudolph.  I would have loved to have seen someone who was 14 intersex or transgender running and doing something that I enjoy doing.   15 
AJ: It would have given you more inspiration. 16 
RE: Yes, yes.  But I love Wilma Rudolph. 17 
AJ: You embraced the role models that were available to you. 18 
RE: Yes, that were available and just to see Laverne and Miss Mock, thats pretty cool.  I like that. 19 
AJ: Its awesome, it is very awesome.  Yeah, we have our own sort of local superstar here, CeCe 20 McDonald who, you know, has gone through a lot of changes with the criminal justice system 21 but has been able to come back and be a strong activist for the community.  Whats your 22 thoughts around activism and speaking out, Reneka?  Is that a part of your own process or do 23 you kind of more quietly do your work in the background? 24 
RE: Well, so, for me, there is different places and levels of support that I feel that I can extend or 25 ring bells and whistles about.  I think thats for everything and everybody in certain situations 26 when youre an activist.  I seem to talk more about HIV in the transgender community. 27 
AJ: Which is important. 28 
RE: Yes, because it affects the community as a whole  whether youre positive or not, your 29 girlfriend may be or your boyfriend may be.  So, in that situation, I stand up when were talking 30 about HIV in the transgender community, or HIV period.   31 
AJ: HIV period  absolutely.   32 
RE: All together. 33 
AJ: Sexually transmitted diseases and sexual health. 34 
RE: Yes, yes  the whole nine yards.  But when someone is talking about something that I dont have 35 any control over or I see there is not a lot of power I can put in, and it needs to be a group 36 effort, then I kind of need to make sure the plan is together before I stand up in those situations.  1 But, with HIV, health education  those are things that I can share individually in conversation, 2 impact one person at a time.  Those are the things that I can really move forward with my own 3 power.  It takes people, I mean, so many levels that I can do that, but when it comes down to 4 issues that are way bigger than self, then I kind of wait until I get a group to help me out. 5 
AJ: I feel like that is a really important aspect around advocacy is to make sure that we are creating 6 healthy situations for our sisters, because unfortunately HIV and AIDS has really impacted the 7 transgender community in very, very challenging ways.  I think there are so many reasons why  8 a), kind of like in the prison situation you described, trans women arent always considered 9 women and so if youre doing some interventions that are for males, transgender women, 10 theyre not going to show up for that  theyre not going to a male group no matter how many 11 bus cards youre giving away.  And, I think the fact that so many of our sisters are really forced 12 into sex work because they cant find jobs in other places, that HIV and AIDS becomes a big 13 concern in that situation too.  What Im saying is, I deeply applaud your activism around HIV and 14 AIDS and really lifting up that horn and blowing it and saying, Hey, were out here dying, you 15 know.  We need support, we need help, we need to take care of these women that have been 16 affected and we need to end AIDS.  So thank you, Reneka. 17 
RE: Youre welcome.   18 
AJ: What do you think the agenda is for the transgender community?  Or maybe, what do you think 19 the agenda is and what should it be moving forward? 20 
RE: What do you mean, the agenda? 21 
AJ: The agenda  like what should we be thinking about?  Whats the number one priority?  Is it HIV 22 and AIDS that we really need to focus all our attention on?  Is it helping trans people get jobs?  Is 23 it helping people get name changes?  What do you think is the big priorities that we should be 24 working on as a community? 25 
RE: I think one really good one would be building sister and brotherhood.  I am a big believer of that.  26 If you dont have support things can really fall apart for you.  If you have no one to talk to, 27 nowhere to go or dont know who to go to or who to talk to, that could be a concern. 28 
AJ: Absolutely.   29 
RE: If youre not building strong relationships because you dont have a family, like bloodline family 30 that you have that support you, I think that . . . just kind of like years ago when they used to do 31 families, Thats my gay mom, thats my gay dad.  And that person would talk to you and let 32 you come in.  If you just wanted a meal and chit-chat, thats fine.  If you want to go in the back 33 and go to sleep, thats fine, but you always know that that person is going to open their door for 34 you and if you want to talk, thats fine.  I dont see much of that.   35 
AJ: Did you have a gay mom or a . . . 36 
RE: I had two big brothers. 37 
AJ: Really? 38 
RE: I did.  I didnt have a mom and dad, but I had some great big brothers. 1 
AJ: Wow, thats beautiful. 2 
RE: Yeah, helped me along a lot.   3 
AJ: Thats a really important aspect.  Thats a big part of the sort of house scene too.  Have you ever 4 been involved with ball culture or house culture? 5 
RE: I attend balls but I have not . . . like . . . 6 
AJ: Been a part of a house. 7 
RE: Been a part of or participate in a house at all. 8 
AJ: But they do have that kind of structure where they have sort of . . .  9 
RE: Right, the structure Im thinking more of is kind of real life mom and dad and for me the ball 10 feels more like this is your title but there is nothing . . . excuse me ball people.  This is like just 11 your title and its kind of like, OK, thats your role, but is it the role that you will play when 12 youre not in that scene?  And that community and sister and brotherhood Im thinking is more 13 off-the-grid. 14 
AJ: Totally underground. 15 
RE: If you know a young person that needs to talk or if theyre on drugs or you see something that is 16 not right and you go, Ahh, come here sister, lets talk, lets have a conversation.  Whats going 17 on sweetie?  Those are the relationships that I think we need to get back to.  Being transgender 18 and transsexual is a lot of competition because it feels more like being a poodle, everybody 19 wants one.  Oh, thats so cute, they so cute, thats a drag queen.  You follow me? 20 
AJ: Yeah, though Ive never experienced that.  Usually Im more like a mutt and, Go over there, go 21 away, go outside.  No, Im teasing.  Man, I got this question on here and I know I know the 22 answer but I just want to kind of hear, have you ever worked for or volunteered for a 23 transgender or an LGBT organization?  I think its important for us to just hear all of the things 24 that youve done.   25 
RE: For a transgender organization? 26 
AJ: Transgender or LGBT organization? 27 
RE: Other than a bar? 28 
AJ: It could be a bar too. 29 
RE: I have a couple of those, other than a bar, I was just kind of kidding.  So, currently I work for the 30 Red Door, which is not gay but its gay friendly.  It is a clinic that serves Hennepin County and it 31 really surrounds community issues, a lot of sexual health issues.   32 
AJ: But they do have programs specifically for gay men and . . . 33 
RE: Oh yes. 34 
AJ: Like the Red Door Clinic itself, like you said, is not a gay clinic.   1 
RE: Right, right.  Its not a gay clinic but we have programs that assist gay individuals and there are 2 programs that are designated to assist gay, lesbian and transgender individuals.  Because were 3 practicing so much on making sure that people know that its a county clinic not . . . because we 4 dont want people who are straight that need needle exchange not come . . . 5 
AJ: Right, because they think its gay.   6 
RE: Right, that its a gay clinic.  So I just want to make that straight. 7 
AJ: Thats perfect. 8 
RE: And then I . . . 9 
AJ: But you coordinate the . . .  10 
RE: The transgender program.  Yes. 11 
AJ: Tell me a little bit about that. 12 
RE: OK, so in that program were working on HIV testing for the transgender community and the 13 non-gender conforming individuals.  So were testing them, finding individuals who are positive 14 and wrapping them into the care.  Individuals who are out of care, were wrapping them into 15 care, and testing their partners and finding their health risks.  And for individuals who are 16 transgender, theyre also welcome to the program, who are not positive, to participate in the 17 support groups.  And the support groups look more like slumber parties.  It is really is not that 18 formal, My name is . . .  I am this, I am that.  So you watch a movie, at the end of the movie . 19 . . with your pjs on, lights off, and popcorn and the whole nine yards.  And you . . . whoever has 20 the teddy bear is the person who has the floor.  They just kind of pass a little stuffed animal 21 around for who wants to talk. 22 
AJ: Oh, so cute.   23 
RE: Yes.  And so theres a needle exchange along with the program, several referrals to places that 24 you may need hormone treatments and things of that nature. 25 
AJ: Therapy. 26 
RE: Therapy  yeah. 27 
AJ: Where do the slumber parties . . . is it an overnight party or it just you all watch a movie in your 28 pajamas and then people go home and go to bed. 29 
RE: Yeah, thats it.  You get a chance to just have fun for a couple hours. 30 
AJ: And the movies are . . . what kind of movies? 31 
RE: Oh, thats a good question.  Like Paris is Burning, just . . . The Crying Game.  You havent . . . 32 
AJ: I havent been out in so long, thats 30 years ago. 33 
RE: And there is a scene in there where the young lady finally reveals her body parts and her bra is 1 not matching her panties.  And so thats . . . and have that conversation, have that happen to 2 you.   3 
AJ: Her bra is not matching her panties  oh wow. 4 
RE: Yeah, a couple movies like that. 5 
AJ: Oh fun. 6 
RE: And thats another thing, on a lighter note, were also thinking more like the men who dress in 7 drag and entertain us, what do we think about those guys?  Like Tyler Perry.  What do you think 8 about him?  What do you really think about him? 9 
AJ: Or Martin, remember Martin. 10 
RE: Flip Wilson.   11 
AJ: Flip Wilson. 12 
RE: Yeah, so what do you think about those guys?  Do you . . . so yeah. 13 
AJ: Whats the conversation like around that?  Do people think its funny?  I remember going to see 14 Juwanna Mann and . . .  15 
RE: Yeah, Juwanna Mann  thats another one. 16 
AJ: I was very disappointed in that movie.  It just seemed like every stereotype about trans women 17 and they were just making fun of . . . it just didnt feel good to me at all.  How do people respond 18 in a group about the Tyler Perrys and the Flip Wilsons?   19 
RE: And so thats kind of part of the . . . if youre teasing or making fun of the transgender 20 community or are you a man dressing as a woman?  And so, with Tyler Perry hes strictly 21 transforming from Tyler to Madea. 22 
AJ: To Madea.   23 
RE: Which hes being a grandmother as a character, not necessarily trans.  Right.   24 
AJ: Exactly. 25 
RE: And so what does this say, what message is he giving off to people who dont know the 26 definitions between drag queen and its just comedy or is he secretly living a life he really wants 27 to live behind this character?  And so it brings on a different type of conversation other than just 28 bringing your own problems and laying them on the table so everybody else can pick up your 29 problems and leave with them.   30 
AJ: Sure.  Thats a good approach.  Youve got me thinking about Big Mamas House with Martin . . . 31 hes done a few different characters of women. Shanaynay . . .  32 
RE: Shanaynay  yes. 33 
AJ: In Living Color . . . or from the show Martin, I think.   34 
RE: Yeah, Shanaynay from the show.  And someone did Wanda.   1 
AJ: That was on In Living Color. 2 
RE: In Living Color  yeah.   3 
AJ: That was . . . the guy who won the Academy Award.  He played Ray Charles . . . Jamie Foxx. 4 
RE: That was Jamie Foxx, wasnt it? 5 
AJ: Yeah, he was Wanda.   6 
RE: So yeah, we want to capture that in the movies and . . . yeah. 7 
AJ: Wow, man, Reneka, we have went over an hour already  it seems like 10 minutes.   8 
RE: Right, right. 9 
AJ: Girl, is there anything I didnt ask you that you want to talk about?  Im transgender, obviously, 10 and life has been . . . for the most part, pretty good, but there have been some significant 11 challenges.  You seem like youve just been going through it and its all been good, I mean . . . is 12 that an accurate description? 13 
RE: For the most part.  There is some things that I practice . . . staying out of the way.  Thats one of 14 the phrases I always say.  How you doing, girl?  Im just staying out of the way.   15 
AJ: OK. 16 
RE: And I need to practice it  stay out of the way.   17 
AJ: And what does that mean to you?  Ive kind of got a sense of it, but what does that mean to 18 you? 19 
RE: That means not putting yourself in situations that you may not get out of in safe manner.  Dont 20 mislead people that you . . . well at this point since I have a vagina, I want to mislead someone 21 and thats fine, but that still causes a problem.  Well get back to that.  But, not misleading 22 people, not revealing certain things that people should know because they should know who 23 you are if theyre going to hang out with you.   24 
AJ: Right, exactly. 25 
RE: So things like that.  Just being good, stay in my lane. 26 
AJ: Stay in your lane, yeah.   27 
RE: And so, some of the things that keep me from having a lot of concerns is that being passable, Im 28 able to get away with some things that if a person wasnt  like many years ago, when someone 29 would open . . . when a guy would open the door for me, Id be like, Oh my gosh, what if he 30 found out he opened it up for a transgender person.  And so after so many years of doing it, Im 31 expecting it, You better open this door for me.  Its like, You get it, you open this door, Im 32 going to let you.  And so things like that, just making sure that things dont come back and 33 haunt me later.  Just staying out of the way.  I do have a passion concerning the justice system 34 on all levels . . .  35 
AJ: Yes. 1 
RE:  . . . towards the transgender community.  And then that, again, I have to practice staying out of 2 the way because I dont want them to have the flyer down at the jail, Shes a troublemaker and 3 if you pull her over, you know  ruffle her feathers a little bit.  I dont know.   4 
AJ: I told somebody the other day I dont want to become #andreajenkins.  Im not trying to be a 5 hashtag.   6 
RE: Right, yeah.  So things like that.  My advice to other people  just stay in your lane, stay out of 7 the way and enjoy life no matter where youre at.  Whether youre transitioning or not, just 8 enjoy life because its pretty short.  Im already past my 40-somethings  its pretty quick, so just 9 enjoy it.   10 
AJ: Wow, thank you so much, Reneka.  This has been a joy and a pleasure and until we meet again, 11 my friend.   12 
RE: Well thanks for having me. 13 
AJ: Love you. 14 
RE: Love you. 15 

