   
Darcy Corbitt Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
    
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
October 17, 2016 
 
 
   

 
  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
   
 
Andrea Jenkins -AJ 1 
Darcy Corbitt  -DC 2 
 3 
 4 
AJ: Good evening.  My name is Andrea Jenkins.  I am the oral historian for the Transgender Oral 5 History Project at the University of Minnesota, the Tretter Collection at the University of 6 Minnesota.  Today is October 17, 2016, and I am here today in Minneapolis with Ms. Darcy 7 Corbitt.  Darcy, how you doing? 8 
DC: Im good, Im glad to be with you today. 9 
AJ: Oh wow, thank you so much, dear.  Darcy, if you dont mind, just stating your name, spelling 10 your name  just so we make sure we have it spelled correctly . . . because I think you told me 11 you spell it a little differently than some of your other family members, that was an interesting 12 story.  But also, tell me your gender identity today and your gender assigned at birth and the 13 pronouns that you like. 14 
DC: OK.  So my name is Darcy Jeda Corbitt-Hall.  D-a-r-c-y J-e-d-a C-o-r-b-i-t-t hyphen H-a-l-l.  My 15 gender pronouns today are . . . or my pronouns are she/her/hers.  My gender identity today is 16 female, transgender male to female, and at birth I was assigned the sex of male.   17 
AJ: OK, thank you.  So, man, I know you had a long day.  You actually live in Fargo, Minnesota . . . no, 18 Fargo, North Dakota. 19 
DC: Yes. 20 
AJ: Its so close to Moorhead. 21 
DC: It might as well be in Minnesota.  Its the only liberal part of North Dakota.   22 
AJ: So, thank you for coming down and even though the reason that youre here is a little 23 heartbreaking, Darcy.  Ive just got to say . . . Im glad that this resource is here and exists for 24 you, but tell us why you have to come to Minneapolis. 25 
DC: So I come to Minneapolis for trans-related health care.  There is care available in Fargo but my 26 insurance doesnt cover it. 27 
AJ: Wow. 28 
DC: And it probably balances out when you factor in gas and wear and tear on the car, but the care 29 that you can receive in Fargo isnt affirming.  As a trans advocate, after advocating for people all 30 day, I just want to have an affirming experience when I go to the doctor.  I found a really great 31 resource here in Minneapolis, or in St. Paul  the Family Tree Clinic. Its just so nice, everyone is 32 so affirming, so kind.  Its really refreshing.   33 
AJ: It is.  I love that place, Ive been over there a couple of times and its great. 34 
DC: I do too.  Its an eight-hour round trip for me and its exhausting.  I usually do it in one day  1 well, in the winter I come the day before so I dont have to feel rushed . . . just with the snow on 2 the ground.  But yeah, this is probably the last eight-hour round trip Ill make this year. 3 
AJ: How long have you been doing it? 4 
DC: Since April. 5 
AJ: And how often do you have to come? 6 
DC: Well, it was like every month but now its every couple of months.  Just getting to that place 7 where we have a pretty stable dosage.  It gives me an excuse to get out of Fargo.  I dont know 8 that I would leave Fargo otherwise, so it is kind of nice to know that there is a length to my stay 9 there.   10 
AJ: Wow, thats pretty cool.  So you look at it on the bright side and see the silver lining there and 11 get to hang out in the big city. 12 
DC: I have a friend who is going to come with me next time, I just need to give him more notice than 13 I gave him . . . I asked him yesterday, Hey, do you want to come with me to the Cities?  Hes 14 like, No, I have to work.  So if I can get someone to come with me I think it will be a little bit 15 more enjoyable. 16 
AJ: A little better, yeah  you dont have to all the driving.   17 
DC: Then I wont have to drive.  I had so many papers to grade and I was like, Oh, if I could get 18 someone to drive me today I could grade papers on the way down. 19 
AJ: So youre a professor?  You teach? 20 
DC: Im a graduate teaching assistant. Im getting a Ph.D. in clinical psych.  21 
AJ: Is that right? 22 
DC: I teach one class a semester and have three papers and 200 students. 23 
AJ: Where do you teach? 24 
DC: I teach at North Dakota State University. 25 
AJ: Really?  Which department? 26 
DC: Psychology, and I teach developmental psychology.   27 
AJ: Wow. 28 
DC: Its fun, but its also tiring to have that many students.  Right now Im a teaching assistant, next 29 semester Ill be the instructor of record so will have less papers. 30 
AJ: Yes, then the teaching assistant will be doing all the work, right? 31 
DC: Yeah.  So, I enjoy it.  I enjoy getting to meet students.  When I took developmental psychology 1 we didnt talk about sexual orientation or gender identity at all, which is, I think, a shame 2 because its something that develops.  3 
AJ: Yes. 4 
DC: Its part of the natural lifespan.  And so when I teach, I incorporate it into my lectures and, as a 5 result, the instructor that I work for has started incorporating it into her lectures. 6 
AJ: Oh wow. 7 
DC: So I feel like Ive made a very positive change and actually just a few weeks ago we talked about 8 gender identity development and early childhood and a student raised her hand and was like, 9 Well, I get that some people think that, but what if we dont believe that.  Why should it be 10 shoved down our throats?  And Im sitting there like, Oh my gosh.  Im not in a place right 11 now to be answering this question, she obviously doesnt know that her instructor is 12 transgender.  13 
AJ: Oh my goodness. 14 
DC: I was really surprised that the class kind of jumped on it and was like, No, just because you 15 believe something doesnt mean you have a right to ignore facts.  And so . . . 16 
AJ: Wow, thats pretty cool. 17 
DC: Thats Fargo, North Dakota.  I was like, Where are these kids from?  Of course in the fall, the 18 class is mostly sophomores, juniors and seniors.  The freshmen have to take an intro before they 19 can take my class. 20 
AJ: So they wont come until they become a sophomore. 21 
DC: In the spring . . . or in the spring, if they take intro in the fall.  So I think the students in my class 22 currently are a little bit more like . . . educated.  If this was in the spring, it might have gone the 23 other way.  But yeah, that was like my worst nightmare.  Ive been waiting for that question and 24 it finally happened.  It happened on a day when I wasnt really in a great mood. 25 
AJ: Well, but you didnt have to deal with it  the young people dealt with it themselves. 26 
DC: I didnt. 27 
AJ: Thats great.  So Darcy, what is your earliest memory in life?  Whats the first thing you 28 remember? 29 
DC: Oh, its not a great memory. 30 
AJ: Really? 31 
DC: When I was little, I dressed up like a girl and would wear my sisters dress-up clothes and dress-32 up high heels around the house.  I would wear my moms high heels and pretend to be Mary 33 Poppins and I would wear her fabulous scarves.  She got rid of a purse and so I carried that purse 34 around  and it was my purse. 35 
AJ: Oh wow. 1 
DC: This was as a kid. 2 
AJ: How . . .? 3 
DC: Three years  4-years-old. I was also playing t-ball at the time, I was an equal opportunity child.  4 Kids are so great.  When kids are that young, activities arent gendered.  Its just like, Do you 5 want to do this? Yeah, I guess so.  And then you do it and you like it and then you keep doing 6 it, if you dont  you stop doing it.  So I enjoyed it and one day I was playing and my dad was like, 7 Look, dont tell your coach, dont tell your friends that you dress up like a girl at home.  I was 8 like, Why?  And he was like, Because thats not what little boys do and theyre going to make 9 fun of you.  And so my first . . . my earliest memory is of my dad telling me not to be myself and 10 also telling me that if I was myself I would be victimized.   11 
AJ: Wow. 12 
DC: Thats a terrible first memory to have. 13 
AJ: Yes, Im so sorry.   14 
DC: Its interesting because now as a . . . 15 
AJ: That was the culture, though, right? 16 
DC: Well, and it still is in that house.  But its interesting, because now as a developmental clinical 17 scientist, I research victimization, I research bullying, and how that affects peoples 18 development.  So, its kind of cool that my early memory corresponds with what Ive decided to 19 do with my career. 20 
AJ: Wow.   Where did you grow up? 21 
DC: I grew up in Auburn, Alabama.  So a medium-sized town, outside of Montgomery.  Its about an 22 hour and a half from Atlanta. 23 
AJ: So Deep South? 24 
DC: Deep South, right in the bellybutton of Alabama  its that little white notch that sticks into 25 Georgia.  But its a college town and so its a pretty progressive, for Alabama, a pretty 26 progressive town.  Auburn University is there, thats where I went to school.  My family has lived 27 there for five generations. 28 
AJ: Is that right?  Wow. 29 
DC: Were pretty well known in the community.  I spent most of my childhood there. I spent my 30 early years in Louisiana and then in Georgia.  I havent lived in Alabama my whole life but I spent 31 most of my formative years there. 32 
AJ: OK.  So what do your parents do?  What kind of work do they do? 33 
DC: My mom is an English teacher and for most of my . . . well, for my early childhood she worked 34 for the State Department of Education as an instructional coach and basically thats what she 35 does.  She does in-service teaching for teachers.  And then she took a break and home schooled 1 me and my siblings for a while and now shes back as an instructional coach, but she works for a 2 school system near Auburn.  My dad is a manager, he was a manager for Wal-Mart and then he 3 had his own ad business with a friend for a while and then he worked as a manager for Waffle 4 House.  He currently stays home and takes care of my little sister.   5 
AJ: Oh sweet.  How many siblings? 6 
DC: I have six siblings, all girls  all younger.  The youngest is five and the oldest is 22.  I was 18, I was 7 a freshman in college when my parents had my little sister.  Its a very poignant reminder that 8 my parents were still having sex and that everything was still working. 9 
AJ: Everything is still working. 10 
DC: But I kind of look on her as a child  well, she is a child, but my own child. 11 
AJ: Really?  Thats the relationship that you guys have? 12 
DC: Thats the age difference, basically she could be my child. 13 
AJ: Sure, absolutely. 14 
DC: And she kind of looks on me as a third parent.   15 
AJ: Cool.  So man, you were carrying your mommys purse, you were dressing up in your sisters 16 clothes as a kid.  Did your siblings tease you?  Did kids ever find out about this at school or in the 17 neighborhood? 18 
DC: After my dad told me that I would be bullied, I didnt tell anyone.  And it wasnt really anything 19 that ever happened outside of the home.  But from that point forward, I never really told 20 anyone and I still pretended . . . well, I didnt pretend to be a girl because I was a girl, but I 21 pretended like other people knew even though it was never explicitly said.  I just pretended like 22 it. 23 
AJ: In your own head. 24 
DC: In my head, so in my world I was a girl.  And I lived in that world until . . . maybe 6th grade.  I got 25 bullied a lot in middle school and I left halfway through the year.  I was homeschooled for . . . 26 
AJ: Was it around your gender identity? 27 
DC: Well I wasnt . . . I didnt know what a gender identity was or what sexual orientation was at this 28 point. 29 
AJ: Right, but kids . . .  30 
DC: I think it was because I was feminine.  31 
AJ: Yeah. 32 
DC: There was . . . you know, it was because there was this kid who would like come up to me and 33 tell me to kiss him.  It really bothered me.  No one would do anything to stop it and I told . . . I 34 told the principal and he got in trouble.  Looking back it was sexual harassment and so then he 1 and his friends were going to beat me up and there was that threat.  I was just really unhappy 2 and so my parents pulled me out and homeschooled me. 3 
AJ: For the rest of middle school? 4 
DC: The rest of middle school and then I went to a private school for high school.  It was about that 5 time I decided I needed to man up.  I needed to be a man.  Ive never really been hyper 6 masculine.  I played football for a season.  I didnt like it so I never did it again. 7 
AJ: I played all the way through high school. 8 
DC: Looking back, I missed some great opportunities.  I could have really . . . I think I would have 9 enjoyed playing sports, I just never felt like I fit in.  But I really enjoyed going to my sisters 10 soccer matches and their soccer practices, I just loved the comradery between the girls.  What I 11 think what it was was me longing to be part of that.   12 
AJ: Sure. 13 
DC: But I went from really being sort of a sports kind of a person to focusing more on art, the arts.  14 So I started my high school newspaper, I was one of the founding members of our drama 15 society. 16 
AJ: Oh wow. 17 
DC: I was in the choir.  So I really cultivated that side of my identity.  I really enjoy writing, I enjoy 18 reading, I enjoy teaching and talking.  Ive really cultivated those experiences.  I was really 19 fortunate that my parents were able to send me to a private school.  I went to a classical . . . 20 well, it was a classical Christian academy, so the Christian part was sort of unfortunate for me, 21 but the classical part wasnt because there was a huge focus in that movement on education, 22 focusing on logic and rhetoric and learning how to use words and to understand what words 23 mean.  There was a heavy emphasis on writing.  So I started college really ahead of the curve in 24 terms of my writing ability.  I found introductory comp to be kind of remedial for me.  I was like, 25 I know how to do this.  26 
AJ: And Auburn is one of the top schools in Alabama. 27 
DC: I didnt go to Auburn as a freshman.  I went to Christian University in Montgomery.  That was 28 one of the best decisions I ever made and also one of the worst decisions I ever made. 29 
AJ: How so? 30 
DC: If I hadnt gone there, I dont know that I would have come out as soon as I did.  At the end of 31 high school I kind of started to figure out that I was different.  All throughout middle school I 32 knew I was kind of physically attracted to men, but I was also attracted to women too.  So I 33 didnt know . . . like if that was normal.  I just kind of assumed maybe it was just normal, it was 34 just hormones.  But then in high school I had a crush on this guy in the class above me and it 35 really was emotionally hard for me to deal with.  It was interesting, because when I would 36 imagine myself with him, I was a woman.  And so that was also a very troubling thing to think 37 about and to try to process.  So, I kind of had an idea of what gay was but it was a bad thing in 38 my mind, because thats just how southerners kind of view gay people in general.  I had no idea 1 what transgender was, that was not on my radar at all.   2 
AJ: Wow. 3 
DC: So when I went to my freshman year of college, very quickly I met this guy, he was from 4 Sweden, he was very beautiful.  I felt this instant connection.  I was drawn to this person in a 5 way that Id never been drawn to anyone before and really never since.  It scared the shit out of 6 me because Id never felt this way before.  We became really good friends and eventually we 7 had a very intense emotional relationship.  I really wanted to be with him.  I had to question 8 everything that I was working for, working towards, what I wanted.  I wanted to be a minister in 9 a Christian church and had to give that up.  I decided that I didnt want to be unhappy, that I 10 wanted to be with him, that he was worth losing a lot of the things that I had worked for.  I had 11 started coming out, and then I got outed, and then my parents did not take it well, and then I 12 had to leave that school because of their rules, and then the guy and I stopped talking. 13 
AJ: Oh wow. 14 
DC: He essentially told me that I wasnt worth it and that he didnt love me.  That was devastating 15 because Id given up a lot for him. 16 
AJ: So he stayed at the school? 17 
DC: He did for another couple of years and then he transferred to a college in Glasgow.  Were still 18 friends on Facebook so I kind of keep up with him from time-to-time but I was so devastated by 19 that that I tried to kill myself. 20 
AJ: Oh no. 21 
DC: I wasnt in a great place.  I was not in school anymore, I didnt really have a relationship with my 22 parents or my family, and I was 18 . . . well, I guess 19 then, trying to navigate adult life without 23 really any resources, without really a plan of what I was going to do, and then . . . 24 
AJ: So you werent living at home? 25 
DC: No.  I was living in Auburn but I wasnt at home.  And so, when the guy told me that he didnt 26 want to see me again, I just felt like I had nothing.  I felt empty.  I wanted to die and I couldnt 27 follow through with it.  I was going to cut my wrists but I couldnt get the razor blade out.  It 28 took me so long to get that razor blade out, or to try to get it out, that I deescalated by the time.  29 So I was saved by the power of engineering.  But it gave me a new appreciation for life and it 30 made me want to make the most of every minute that I had.  And so I went to community 31 college, which was a huge . . . it was really embarrassing for me.  Now Im not embarrassed by it, 32 I was very pretentious.  But Id worked really hard in high school, I had an almost perfect GPA, I 33 had a full scholarship to this private school, so it was kind of hard for me to go to a community 34 college but it was what I could afford so I did it.  I got my associates degree in a year, which is 35 unheard of there.  I just breezed through the classes.  And then I went to Auburn.  While I was at 36 Auburn, Id started out as an English major and then I read this article about this gay kid in 37 Michigan who died by suicide because he was being bullied and nobody was doing anything to 38 stop it.  It made me so angry that I switched my major to psychology because nobody helped 39 this kid and I was like, If no one will help him, then I will.  It was about this time that I started 1 questioning everything that I thought about myself.  I was living as a gay man, I was cross 2 dressing, I pretty much cross dressed from the day I came out as gay. 3 
AJ: Really?  At home or . . .? 4 
DC: Everywhere  full-time.  I was a full-time cross dressing male.  And I identified as male.   5 
AJ: Which is kind of a thing in the south, right?  How old are you? 6 
DC: 24. 7 
AJ: I just know on a lot of college campuses in the south, and I forget the term for it, but some of 8 the gay men are very femme, wear heels, eyeliner, but they have facial hair and they identify as 9 males but they wear womens clothing, they . . . was that how you were sort of presenting 10 yourself? 11 
DC: I looked the same way I look now, with smaller breasts  well, and I was also skinnier.  Im not 12 sure, I think I knew that I was a woman, I just didnt know how to articulate what I was going 13 through.  It wasnt until I went to the Gay Straight Alliance though and somebody thought I was 14 trans and treated me like I was trans and then I asked, What do you mean by trans?  Trans-15 Siberian Orchestra?  I dont know what youre talking about.  And then they told me and I was 16 like, Oh, shut . . . Well that just . . . I was completely side-swiped.  I was like I dont know what 17 I am anymore because this sounds so right but it sounds so complicated and I dont want to deal 18 with it.  So I kind of ran from it until I couldnt run anymore because Im the kind of person that 19 once I know something to be true, or at least true for me, I cant deny that . . . I cant just run 20 from it, I dont do well with deception.   21 
AJ: Sure. 22 
DC: Especially with myself.  And so I started coming out and . . .  23 
AJ: As trans? 24 
DC: As trans. 25 
AJ: And this was when? 26 
DC: 2013.  And so, I hadnt told my parents.  I had started living with them again and they knew I 27 was cross dressing, but I dont think they really knew what was going on.  Trans wasnt on their 28 radar either  it was all gay to them, it still is largely all gay to them.  They were coming to . . . I 29 was getting awarded, I got a scholarship, the outstanding junior in English scholarship. 30 
AJ: Oh wow, congratulations. 31 
DC: Thank you. 32 
AJ: Miss Smarty Pants. 33 
DC: I had the double degree in English and Psychology, I didnt drop the English part because Id 34 already done so much work I was like, Im not giving that up.   35 
AJ: Im keeping this. 1 
DC: So, I was in the parking lot of the banquet place and I was . . . I was driving up essentially, I took 2 my breasts out and everything and my mom saw me, so I outed myself to my mom 3 inadvertently weeks before . . . I was already going to do it but it was like I had a planned date 4 and so I had to push my timeline back a little bit . . . or forward. 5 
AJ: Up?  Or back?   6 
DC: Like back to that moment.  It was like, OK, now I have to deal with . . .  So it was not a good 7 situation and they . . . I got a text from my dad.  I walked into the banquet place and my dad had 8 texted me and said they werent coming and that my mom had seen me and that we would 9 have to talk when I got home.  I knew what we were going to talk about.  So I had to sit through 10 this banquet that was supposed to be honoring me and smile and pretend like I was in a great 11 place and that I was happy to be there and that I was going to be able to finish my degree, all 12 the while knowing I probably wasnt.  When I got home my mom wouldnt talk to me and my 13 dad was really mad at me.  I was in my room throwing stuff in a bag  like can I live or not live 14 without at this point.  My dad basically said, You either be a man or you leave.  And so I left.  15 And that was in March, maybe April . . . there was still a little bit of time left in the semester, it 16 was right before finals, and I didnt have anywhere to go.  I didnt have anywhere to stay, I didnt 17 have any money.  18 
AJ: Were your sisters all younger than you? 19 
DC: Yes, theyre all younger. 20 
AJ: So youre the oldest. 21 
DC: Im the oldest.  And so, I was in this really weird, vulnerable place where I was living in the car, 22 living out of the car, staying at my parents house as a man, sleeping on couches, hooking up 23 with people so I would have someone where to stay, hooking up with people so that I would 24 have money, trying to finish my semester out without completely tanking, and trying to find a 25 new job, trying to find somewhere to live, trying to find a car because I didnt have a car. 26 
AJ: Did you talk to . . . like advisors and counselors at the school?  Were they not supportive or . . .? 27 
DC: I was seeing a therapist at the university and the student advocate was able to get me a Perkins 28 Loan so that I would have a little bit of money to just kind of get settled.  But at that point, 29 dropping out or taking a medical leave wasnt an option because I would still have to pay my 30 student loans back and I didnt have the money to do that.  So I was sort of between a rock and 31 a hard place where its like tank out or fork over $8000.  It was a rough two months and I had to, 32 from that point forward, work two to three jobs to make ends meet and from time-to-time I had 33 to do things that I didnt want to do for money. 34 
AJ: Like sex work? 35 
DC: Which Im not proud of, but Im also not ashamed of.  I did what I had to do, I wish that I didnt 36 have to.  I hope that no one ever has to do that but I know that they do. 37 
AJ: Yeah, society pushes trans-identified people in those directions because its so hard to get 1 employment its so hard to find housing, its so hard to finish school to get the credentials and 2 all that.  So yeah.  But you made it through. 3 
DC: I did and now Im getting a Ph.D. 4 
AJ: Youre getting a Ph.D. and youre only 24-years-old.  Thats incredible, Darcy.   5 
DC: Yeah, its pretty hard to get . . . I went straight to Ph.D., so I dont have a masters degree.  Thats 6 pretty standard in psychology but its really hard to go straight from bachelors to Ph.D. without 7 a little bit of a break in the middle to do additional research experience.  So I actually was pretty 8 fortunate to be able to get in right out of undergrad.  9 
AJ: Yeah, absolutely.  Yeah, they want you to have either research or work experience in that field. 10 
DC: I had three years of research experience.  I was doing research on top of working two jobs and 11 the occasional third.  I actually had a pair of . . . 12 
AJ: And transitioning. 13 
DC: And transitioning.  I had a peer-review publication when I graduated from undergrad. 14 
AJ: OK, well thats . . . 15 
DC: And then two or three conference presentations  and I brought data with me.  Ive actually 16 been really, for a trans person, incredibly successful.  And I think thats something to celebrate, 17 because its so hard for us to be successful because we are not given the opportunity to develop 18 our interests, most of us cant go to school. 19 
AJ: Im interested in . . . in all of this time, particularly being homeless for a bit of a time, or being 20 housing insecure as they say, were you presenting yourself as a woman? 21 
DC: I was.  So even when I was staying at my parents house and having to present as a man, I was 22 getting dressed in the car as a woman.  In my mind the only space they could control was the 23 space that they owned, and they didnt own me and they didnt own the university where I 24 went, they didnt own the town. So I would literally get dressed in the parking lot at school 25 because I didnt want anyone to see me the other way. 26 
AJ: So the Perkins Loan came in and you found a couple of jobs and thats how you were able to 27 stabilize yourself then? 28 
DC: I was actually able to stabilize like in a four-month period.  Not thrive but . . . 29 
AJ: But survive. 30 
DC: I was in the survival area.  I went from dire straits to just straits.   31 
AJ: Right. 32 
DC: It was basically I got to the point where nothing can go wrong, the car cannot break down.  I got 33 a $900 car that was 20 years old, it had 350,000 miles on it and that car is still running strong 34 today.  I actually sold it to my sister when I moved here.  The only thing shes had to do to it is 35 change the brakes because I wore those brakes out.  I was like, Nothing is going wrong, nothing 1 can go wrong with the car, I cant exceed my grocery budget.  I had to be very disciplined in 2 order to get through that first year of living as Darcy full-time.  And then the second year I got a 3 grant and then I was doing just a little bit better, but I was living on $8000/year which is not a 4 living wage. 5 
AJ: That is not a living wage.  Darcy, what terms do you use to describe yourself and how has it 6 changed over time?  Youve talked a little bit about this, you said you were living as a gay man. 7 
DC: So I identified as a gay man and then I identified as a trans woman.  I still identify as a trans 8 woman but I dont necessarily lead with that all the time.  Trans women are women too, but Im 9 not ashamed of being transgender and its definitely something that I bring up  especially with 10 people with whom I have a relationship, any kind of a relationship with.  But for me at this point 11 its not like, Well I have to tell you something.  Its just like, Oh, yeah, Im transgender.   12 
AJ: Im pretty sure most people are kind of surprised, right?  You pass, to use that phrase  passing. 13 
DC: I know.  Its a terrible phrase.  Yeah, a lot of people have said, I would never have known you 14 were transgender.  Which I have to resist replying, Well, what do you think a trans person 15 looks like, a train wreck? 16 
AJ: Exactly.   17 
DC: I dont understand, but I understand theyre trying to make a complement but its sort of a 18 backhanded one.  But I also . . . so my sexual orientation has probably changed the most.   19 
AJ: OK. 20 
DC: I went from being, when I started . . . I sort of have come full circle.  So when I started initially 21 coming out I was telling people that I was bi-sexual and a lot of people gave me a hard time 22 about that because they were like, Oh, bi- now, gay later.  And so I kind of believed that 23 stereotype for a while because everyone told me that that was a thing. 24 
AJ: Right. 25 
DC: I think thats how that stereotype perpetuates because a lot of gay people just dont know, 26 because they barely know what gay is.  And so, I originally had based it not because I . . . not 27 because I was afraid that people would reject me if I was totally gay but because where I was at 28 that time was this idea that Im not loving a man, Im loving a person.  I love him as he is, but 29 there are also women that Ive loved as they are.  But then I was gay, and so I was very gay and I 30 was like, Theres no way ever that I could be with anyone other than a gay man. 31 
AJ: Right. 32 
DC: And then I came out as trans, and then I met a woman and I liked her  I was attracted to her, 33 and then I was with her for a little bit, and then I met another woman and was attracted to her 34 and was with her for a year.  And so, I was like, Well maybe Im pansexual, then.  I skipped the 35 whole bi- thing this time and I was like, I really just love this person, and actually the second 36 woman I was with was trans.  When we started dating, she identified as a man and then she 37 came out to me as trans.  I literally was like, OK, whatever.  I didnt change anything about me 38 and I was like, Oh, I must be pansexual then because her gender does not matter to me at all.  I 1 care about her for who she is.  And then, we broke up  way after that though.  Thats a whole 2 other story.  But when I moved to Fargo, I realized that I didnt feel like pansexual really 3 described me at all.  It sort of did, the hearts not parts thing does, but a term . . . 4 
AJ: The heart . . .? 5 
DC: Heart not part. 6 
AJ: OK, heart not parts.  Yeah, gotta know that. 7 
DC: The way that I really feel is I feel like Im just a Darcy and I identify with anything that is contrary 8 to what society wants me to be. 9 
AJ: Ah-ha . . . woo-hoo. 10 
DC: And the term that I think best describes that is queer and Im embracing that word, I am 11 reclaiming that word, Im giving it its space back.  I like it.  I think that it perfectly encompasses 12 who I am.  Maybe the word will change next year or two years down the road but . . .  13 
AJ: But that sentiment is where you . . . 14 
DC: The sentiment I dont think will, but I just love people.  I love almost every person in this world.  15 There are certain exceptions to that, one of them is running for President right now.  I just do 16 have this intense love for my fellow human beings and I am especially in love with people who 17 are rejected, who are marginalized, because I totally get what it feels like.  Were all different, 18 we all have different experiences, but rejection feels the same and it hurts.   19 
AJ: Physically, emotionally. 20 
DC: I mean we process physical and emotional pain the same way.  It hurts, and I hate that.  And so 21 anything that I can do to relieve suffering just gives me this intense joy.  And so, I dont like 22 being limited by social roles.  If I want to be with a woman, Ill be with a woman.  If I want to be 23 with a man, Ill be with a man.  Now Im definitely always sexually attracted to men; women, I 24 have to really kind of warm up.  So there is a little bit of a distinction there but Im not going to 25 be limited by the body parts that a person has because I just want to be with somebody . . . I 26 want to be with someone on a spiritual level and I want our physical intimacy to be a 27 complement to that spiritual connection. 28 
AJ: So speaking of spiritual connection, you went to a Christian high school, you went to a Christian 29 college for a little while, you wanted to be a minister you stated . . . 30 
DC: Well actually I am a minister. 31 
AJ: You are a minister? 32 
DC: So I did it. Im a licensed lay minister in the Episcopal Church. 33 
AJ: Is that right? 34 
DC: Yes. 35 
AJ: I was just going to ask then, what is your relationship to Christianity and organized religion  and 1 now I know, I guess.  How do you . . . I guess the bigger question, the broader question, is how 2 are you able to reconcile your gender identity with sort of the dogma of Christianity? 3 
DC: So I dont identify as a Christian, I identify as an Anglican, which is a specific subset of 4 Christianity.  I dont think that any other Christian denomination or practice would fit who I am 5 as a person.  I found a home in the Episcopal Church.  I found meaning in the words of the Book 6 of Common Prayer.  And I see religion as a rope.  We can either hang our self on that rope, and 7 many Christians often do  many religious people often do, not just Christians, or we can use 8 that rope to cling to as were being sucked out in the tide of life.  Religion gives us words when 9 we dont have any, it gives us a practice to get us to peace when we dont feel like we can, and 10 thats what I love about the Anglican tradition is everything is liturgical, everything is written for 11 you, all it requires is that you come and that you read them.  I found such inner peace from that, 12 even on a bad day if I just go to Mass for 30 minutes Ill know that Ill feel better at the end of it, 13 because it gives me time to reflect on what I think, what I want, what I believe in what Im going 14 through.  I dont really see God as this figure in the sky, this old white man with a white beard 15 telling everyone what to do. I see God as this concept where people have been trying since the 16 beginning of the human experience, have been trying to understand why were connected to 17 one another, why we love each other, and we call that connection God.  I feel like . . . you know, 18 the Bible says that were all made in Gods image.  And the way I interpret that is that were all 19 equal, were all the same, were all unique.  If God is this great concept and that means were all 20 part of this great tapestry of life and if I am made in that image, then that means that I was 21 made as a trans person and that means that Im perfect the way that I am.  I dont have to do 22 anything to be more of a human or to be a better human, to be a woman, to be anything.  I just 23 have to be who I am and embrace that.  Thats how I reconcile my belief. 24 
AJ: So thats the liturgical aspect, did I say that right?  Liturgical?  But you still have to deal with the 25 people. 26 
DC: People are awful.  But the most . . . most Episcopalians, most Anglicans, are very liberal or if 27 theyre not liberal theyre moderate.  So sort of the guiding principle behind the Episcopal 28 Church is the middle way.  So, moderation in all things  were Protestant but Catholic, were 29 liberal but conservative, were formal yet casual.  And in the Episcopal Church you can kind of be 30 whatever you want to be.  We just kind of see each other as pilgrims on a journey.  Now theyre 31 definitely Episcopalians, like there are many other Christians, who are very rigid in their beliefs, 32 but that is generally not the way that they are.  The Episcopal Church in North Dakota is an 33 exception of that, it is generally very conservative  but my church isnt.  Other Christians 34 though, and this is why I dont identify as a Christian  because most Christians dont recognize 35 me as a Christian and so Im like, Well, if youre not going to let me in your club then . . .   36 
AJ: Yeah.   37 
DC: Screw you.  I follow the practices of the Church . . . 38 
AJ: Because youre Episcopalian or because youre trans? 39 
DC: Because Im trans.  Episcopalians are still Christians in the greater sense, but if the Episcopal 1 Church or the Church of England didnt exist, I wouldnt go to church.  So thats why I dont 2 identify as a Christian.  Its not so much the teachings of Christ that I follow as its the liturgy of 3 the Book of Common Prayer, which is based on the teachings of Christ, but I also find meaning in 4 Buddhist philosophy and theres parts of the Quran that I identify with as well.  I think we can 5 find meaning in anything that has been written.  I find spiritual meaning in Jane Austens book, 6 Persuasion, thats my favorite book of all the books that Ive read.   7 
AJ: Really?   8 
DC: Thats my favorite. I find spiritual meaning in that.  I think we can find meaning wherever we 9 look. 10 
AJ: All roads lead to Rome, huh? 11 
DC: One way or the other, sometimes you have to get there via Venice but youll still get there 12 eventually.   13 
AJ: So whats your relationship with your chosen family today?  Im sorry, not your chosen family, 14 your birth family? 15 
DC: My birth family.  Strained.  I can only have a relationship with them if I live as my old self.  If I did 16 not have younger siblings in the home, then I would not have a relationship with them.  But 17 because I do have younger siblings in the home that I want to have a relationship with, I allow 18 myself to undergo that twice a year.  So when I go home for Christmas, I have to go back as a 19 man. 20 
AJ: You wear your hair back in a ponytail, throw on a baseball cap. 21 
DC: Sweat pants, blue jeans, t-shirts.  Yeah, looking real butch.  Basically I transform myself in the 22 bathroom at Hartsfield-Jackson, in Terminal 1.  Terminal T1 in the gender neutral bathroom by 23 Einstein Bagels, thats where I change.   24 
AJ: Wow, youve got it all down to a science. 25 
DC: I have it down to a science.  I literally walk off the plane, walk in there, I have the clothes I need 26 on the very top of my suitcase, I just change out and walk out of there.  Im sure people are 27 puzzled  theyre like, Didnt a woman walk in there?   28 
AJ: Didnt Super Woman, Super Girl just walk in there?  Now its Super Boy.   29 
DC: I will say, even though I have to do that, when I was there back over the summer, I never got 30 mis-gendered  even when I was dressing as a boy, I still got called . . . 31 
AJ: Theyre like, Maam, how you doing?   32 
DC: It made my parents really uncomfortable but I was like, Well, you make me really 33 uncomfortable.  My older siblings, my three oldest siblings know and theyre fine with it.  They 34 affirm me . . . they cant affirm me in full around my parents, but in private they do.  My sister 35 and my brother-in-law . . . I still havent gotten used to saying that.  Theyve been married less 36 than a year. 37 
AJ: Did you go to the wedding? 1 
DC: I organized the wedding. 2 
AJ: Wow, OK.  So youre in the family still, youre not estranged.  Its just strained, as you said. 3 
DC: I dont consider myself to be in the family though  Darcy is not in the family, Darcy is in part of 4 the family. 5 
AJ: Got it. 6 
DC: My brother-in-law was one of the first people to just really jump on board and say, She is who 7 she is, who cares.  My younger sisters dont know.  I think the middle one does kind of have an 8 idea but the younger two have no clue.  I mean, the youngest one barely has an idea of what her 9 own gender is much less anyone elses.  Im hoping . . . every year it gets a little bit better so Im 10 just kind of hoping that it will all balance out eventually. 11 
AJ: It takes time and youve been out for about three . . .? 12 
DC: Five years.   13 
AJ: So yeah, these things do take time.  What have been some of the challenges?  Youve spoken 14 about a number of the challenges  leaving school, being homeless, heart-broke, heartbreak, 15 and that struggle.  Thank goodness youve come through that, but have you had other 16 challenges around institutions and employment or dating?  I dont know. 17 
DC: I can deal with the economic bullshit, I can deal with employers.  Ive never had trouble getting a 18 job.  In fact, one job where I was working . . . at the time I had housing instability, they told me I 19 couldnt be a woman at work so I literally walked off the job.  I quit, I just walked out.  It was not 20 the best time to be doing it but I was like, Im not dealing with that, Id rather live on the 21 street.  I called someone that I knew who was looking for someone, I had a job.  I was 22 unemployed for like 20 minutes.  So Ive never had troubles with that.  The hardest thing for me 23 has been dating.  It has been the most unaffirming, painful, mortifying, humiliating experience 24 of my life.  Since coming out as trans, Ive been in two relationships and Ive had sex with seven 25 people.   26 
AJ: Thats not bad girl  seven people in five years.   27 
DC: Well . . . five of those people were not people I would have had sex with under any other 28 circumstances other than I needed some jingle.  29 
AJ: All right, thats different then.  Yeah. 30 
DC: But its hard because five people used me and used me as an object, so that sort of didnt feel 31 good.  One of those people used me as an object, I was in a relationship for a month  used me 32 as an object.  The last person I was with used me as emotional support in a transition and then 33 when I needed support was gone.  I feel like Im a really wonderful person, I feel like Im worthy 34 of love, I feel like if I was . . . if I was two people, I would want to be with me.  Its devastating to 35 me that no one wants to be with me.  It literally is the one thing that I hate about my life.  It 36 hurts so bad.  I feel really stupid saying that because Im a very successful woman  very 1 successful.  At 24, Im incredibly successful. 2 
AJ: Yes, absolutely. 3 
DC: Like graduate school, I have a radio program. 4 
AJ: Whats the name of your radio program? 5 
DC: Finding Me. 6 
AJ: Finding Me. 7 
DC: Ive spoken all over the southeast, all over the upper Midwest, people know me and Im only 24-8 years-old.  Ive done so much, I have so much to be proud of, but I just feel like all of that is 9 meaningless because nobody wants to be with me.  I hate that.  I hate that that is the metric 10 that Im using to determine my worth, but Im just so lonely.  I just feel like . . . I feel like I exist 11 to make other people happy but its unreasonable for me to expect even the most basic 12 happiness.   13 
AJ: Well, this is certainly not a therapy session, as you know, because you are becoming a therapist 14 yourself.  Typically I just listen and dont try to give advice in these conversations, but . . . and 15 this is not advice, but just having been down the road a little bit, love will come.  You have to be 16 patient, to stay focused on your goals and accomplishing what you need to do for yourself and 17 really love yourself and other people will love you.  What have been some of the joys since you 18 have come out? 19 
DC: Being connected with myself.  So as bad as that has been, I have no regrets.  I wouldnt do it any 20 differently.  I feel more connected to myself than ever, I trust myself.  Its incredibly liberating to 21 completely trust your judgment and I used to not do that.  And thats not to imply that I feel 22 confident in every decision I make, I just know that I will make the best decision based on the 23 information that I have.  Thats huge, most people dont feel that way. 24 
AJ: Yeah. 25 
DC: I enjoy being with myself and I used to not enjoy being with myself.  I enjoy . . . I was so joyful 26 the first time I took hormones and then the second time, and then when my breasts started 27 hurting I wasnt as joyful anymore.  28 
AJ: There is that. 29 
DC: I remember the first time I was called, Maam, that was a joyful moment.  When I changed my 30 name, that was a joyful moment. 31 
AJ: So thats been a legal process, youve done that. 32 
DC: That was one of the first things I did actually.  When I started living on my own I said Im going to 33 live as a woman full-time, no exceptions.  And except for when I go home, never have I 34 transgressed that.  And Im so proud of this, Im incredibly proud  I have not used a mens 35 restroom since May 11, 2013. 36 
AJ: Wow. 1 
DC: When I started living full-time as a woman.  That is the . . . I will not . . . when I dress as a man, I 2 dont consider myself a man, Im still a woman so I always use the womens room or a gender 3 neutral one.  4 
AJ: Absolutely. 5 
DC: I have never used a mens room since then.  Im proud of that, that is something I have stuck to 6 firmly and without any question. 7 
AJ: How do you feel going into the womens bathroom?  I know there is this euphoric feeling of 8 feeling good that you are able to pass, but . . .? 9 
DC: It depends on the bathroom.   10 
AJ: Are you nervous?  Are you afraid when youre doing it? 11 
DC: If its a bathroom I know in a building I know, so like at the university  no problem.  Because I 12 know if anyone says anything that Im protected by university policy.  Typically in Fargo I dont 13 feel uncomfortable just because I know the town, I know how it is going to react.  When I travel I 14 get really uncomfortable, I get incredibly uncomfortable and actually I always . . . my strategy is 15 always to use the ADA stall because its typically larger, there is much more privacy because 16 youre not right up against that door so if anyone is looking theyre probably not going to see 17 things that you dont want them to see.   18 
AJ: Right, exactly. 19 
DC: So using that strategy, I only stop at well-lit corporate-owned gas stations so that I know there is 20 a process in case I get discriminated against.  I wont stop at a family-owned business ever.  I 21 very rarely shop at locally-owned businesses unless I know them because there is not a process, 22 whereas, with Target there is a process. 23 
AJ: Thats smart. 24 
DC: I dont put myself in situations, and this sounds kind of victim blaming but not at all, I prefer not 25 to be in situations where I have a greater likelihood of getting hurt.  Thats not great because it 26 limits what I can do, but I have not been hurt ever.  Ive gotten death threats. 27 
AJ: Really? 28 
DC: Oh yeah, all the time. 29 
AJ: Why? 30 
DC: Because Im a feisty trans woman who is on local media a lot.  It was more in Alabama, it was 31 pretty regular.  Here it really hasnt been an issue.   32 
AJ: Wow.  We started this whole conversation about medical interventions  youre on hormones.  33 Have you undergone any other medical interventions on this journey to this point? 34 
DC: I have not.  I had planned to have an orchiectomy done this year but I had to cancel it because of 1 money, which I hate but it is what it is. 2 
AJ: Its an expensive process. 3 
DC: I dont know how much intervention I want.  Im kind of in this place where I dont know.  I know 4 that I dont want my testicles, I dont care about them.  I kind of want them in the donkey bag 5 because I want to mail them to my parents and say, Here, you can bury your son now.  Which 6 is kind of a vindictive thing. 7 
AJ: Thats kind of cruel, Im just saying.   8 
DC: But, yeah.  I dont know.  The whole process is very scary, its frightening.  But I know so many 9 people who have had the whole thing done and theyre very happy.  I definitely want to have it 10 done when I have the money to get it done the way that I want. 11 
AJ: Sure. 12 
DC: I have not suffered this much to get a half-ass vagina.  I want the Lexus of vaginas.   13 
AJ: Right, OK. 14 
DC: So Im willing to wait. 15 
AJ: You want a nice ride. 16 
DC: Yes, I do.  A smooth, good ride. 17 
AJ: No pun intended.  I was going to ask about your name.  How did you come to Darcy? 18 
DC: It was a complicated process actually.  I named myself after Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice, 19 the Jane Austen novel.  I really love Jane Austen  were definitely like soul mates across time 20 and space.  But I wanted something that kept my original initials.  I wanted something . . . 21 middle name, didnt really care that much.  My middle name is actually a portmanteau of my 22 parents names  Dave and Jennifer, so J-e for Jennifer and D-a for David.  So Jeda.  My first 23 name, though, I wanted to have the same number of syllables, same number of letters as my 24 original name because we react to syllables and I wanted to keep that recognition.  So Darcy has 25 the same number of syllables as David, which was my birth name, starts with a D, same number 26 of letters.  And so everything stayed very balanced.   27 
AJ: Smart. 28 
DC: And then I added a last name to my last name.  I added my great-grandmothers maiden name, 29 and that is the last name that I go by.  I dont . . . my family name is part of my legal name but I 30 dont use that, except for publications.   31 
AJ: So, state it for me then how you use it in . . .? 32 
DC: So in social settings, Darcy Corbitt is my name. 33 
AJ: But formally? 34 
DC: Darcy J. Corbitt-Hall is my publication name, thats the name on my drivers license. 1 
AJ: Interesting.  I like the science behind. 2 
DC: And also I wanted something that was neutral because I did think for a while what if I did change 3 my mind.   4 
AJ: Yeah. 5 
DC: And so I wanted to have a fall back plan and that . . . I knew that I wanted to be at least, at a 6 minimum, androgynous.  So Darcy can be a mans name or a womans name.  I also did a census 7 search to see how many Darcys there were, how many Darcy Corbitts there were  there are 8 only two Darcy Corbitts in the United States with my spelling exactly.   9 
AJ: Oh wow. 10 
DC: So I was very strategic about picking my name because I wanted it to be perfect. 11 
AJ: Thats the most scientific process I think Ive heard in asking these questions. 12 
DC: Well Im a scientist so I guess that makes sense.   13 
AJ: Its a pretty name though, its works very well.  What do you think the relationship is between 14 the L, the G, the B, and the T, Darcy? 15 
DC: I think were all connected.   16 
AJ: Were all connected. 17 
DC: I think were all connected, I think that we should not be connected when the programs that we 18 do or the research that we do does not include everyone.  So just recently there was this big 19 scandal when the CDC released a graphic and it only had LGB and I understand why people were 20 upset about it. 21 
AJ: Yeah, I saw that same graphic. 22 
DC: But actually I think it was . . .  23 
AJ: It was about youth, right? 24 
DC: Yeah.  But I think their reasoning behind it, and I know the reasoning because I know the person 25 who was responsible for it, their reasoning was they didnt have any trans data or they didnt 26 have enough to make it generalizable and they didnt want to victimize the community by . . . 27 victimize the trans community by reporting false statistics, or by lumping them in with LGB 28 people and that was all they had collected.  But I also know that theyre in the process of 29 collecting that data. 30 
AJ: Well heres what I know, though, is that many times when L, G, or B people are discriminated 31 against, its because they exhibit gender . . . 32 
DC: Non-confirming. 33 
AJ: Non-confirming behavior that people find uncomfortable, which all goes back to gender  so. 34 
DC: And thats why I think were inter-connected.  So like for my thesis Im looking at transphobia 1 and how people . . . how transphobic attitudes and beliefs affect peoples likelihood of 2 defending someone who is being bullied for being gender non-confirming.  And weve gone back 3 and forth about whether or not, you know, to measure homophobia as well.  We kind of couch 4 them as different constructs but after doing months of research and reading hundreds of 5 articles, Im not convinced that theyre really that different because, like you said, generally 6 what it goes back to is their perceived as being non-conforming.  I know to most people Im just 7 a man in a dress.  So the process, I think, is very different.  I think that the behaviors though and 8 the targets are very different.  So, just an interesting idea to think about.   9 
AJ: But in your mind, were in this struggle together.   10 
DC: Oh yeah, I dont think that we should be separate.  I think that we should remain united 11 together, because were stronger when were together.  But I think we need to be very 12 proactive about including everyone and really focusing on the people who are on the very end 13 of that acronym that are often ignored  like poly people, asexual people, intersect people who 14 are sometimes lumped with trans people but theyre different  they have different needs but 15 they still should be included because theyre outside of this norm that is accepted.  I think 16 together, if we work together, we can get more accomplished than if we just reject . . . if we 17 create more divisions because ultimately thats what the other side wants, they want us to be 18 divided.   19 
AJ: Sure. 20 
DC: Frankly I think a lot of the internalized transphobia within the community has been placed there 21 by the non-LGBTQ folks because they want to split us apart.  If they can split us apart they can 22 attack us separately.  Trans people will be the first people to go because were weaker and then 23 theyll come after the gay people. 24 
AJ: Weaker in terms of . . . organized . . .? 25 
DC: Social acceptability, organization, money.   26 
AJ: What do you make of all of the recent trans visibility? 27 
DC: I think most of it is really wonderful.  I think that visibility is important because it gets people 28 accustomed to seeing trans people.  Theyve seen them all along but it puts them in peoples 29 mind and it introduces them to these concepts that theyve never heard of before.  I think its 30 important, not just for cis people, its important for trans people to see other trans people being 31 happy and successful. I didnt know what trans was until I was 21 . . . or 20, and thats ridiculous.  32 Thats absurd that I didnt know who I was until I was 20.  But by having that visibility, the next 33 generation and the generation after that is going to know quicker who they are and theyre 34 going to see, Yes, I actually can be happy.  One of my biggest fears in coming out was if I come 35 out as trans, Im not going to be successful, Im not going to be able to do anything.  I proved 36 myself wrong in a very short amount of time.  Had I had role models to look up to, I think it 37 would have been very different.  Now, that being said, theres been some recent visibility that 38 hasnt been so great.  Its very frustrating to me to see trans people who are passable or 39 stealth being sort of lifted up and glorified in the media, especially when they say things that 1 arent necessarily educated about the trans community  or theyre voting for Donald Trump. 2 
AJ: Any particular people that youre thinking of in that regard? 3 
DC: Caitlyn Jenner.  Im very happy for her that shes found herself and that she can live her life, but 4 at the same time its like please dont be an ambassador for a community that youre very 5 disconnected from.  Because it does send the message that trans people are only valuable if 6 theyre passable, if theyre successful and if theyre able . . . she didnt come out as Cait until she 7 had all that work done, what kind of message does that send?  That she wasnt a woman until 8 she did all that.  Thats just a very harmful . . .  9 
AJ: She only goes out in the world when shes dressed to the nines and has had her make-up team 10 over and hair team. 11 
DC: Thats just a very harmful and, I think, regressive way of approaching trans identity.  Ive said it 12 before, and Ill say it again, I didnt become a woman on May 11, 2013, I didnt become a 13 woman on May 11, 2016, when I started taking hormones for the first time.  I became a woman 14 on May 11, 1992, when I was born.  The fact that I had a penis, the fact that some doctor 15 decided to put M on my birth certificate, the fact that I was conditioned to live as a man 16 doesnt make me a man because I never identified as one.  I have a female body regardless of 17 what it looks like, because thats what I want to have, thats what I know that I am. 18 
AJ: Because youre a woman. 19 
DC: And we need to have that conversation, we dont need to have this idea that you become a 20 woman when you transition or you used to be a man.  No, I used to live as a man but Ive always 21 been a woman.   22 
AJ: Right. 23 
DC: We need to have that shift in language, we need to have that shift in understanding because 24 until we do the implicit message is that there is something to be ashamed of in being trans, 25 theres something wrong with being trans.  Theres nothing wrong with being me, Im not 26 ashamed for people to know that Im trans.  I want people to know that Im trans, Im proud of 27 it.  Its been a struggle but it shows how courageous I am and #transisbeautiful is the perfect 28 representation of how I feel.  Yes, we are beautiful.  Sometimes it takes us a little bit longer to 29 get to where we want to be to be that best version of who we are, but you know what?  Its 30 pretty fun actually and we get the opportunity to really decide who we want to be in a way that 31 I think a lot of people dont get the opportunity to have.   32 
AJ: Thats so true. 33 
DC: I think trans women, of any person alive, have such a unique perspective  especially white trans 34 women, because we have had every bit of power and privilege that the world can give us and 35 then its taken away.  I think we can understand privilege better than any other person and we 36 have such a powerful role in our community, not just the LGBT community but in the larger 37 community, to educate people about privilege.  I know what its like to have male privilege, and 38 Lord I wish I could have it back because its fun. 39 
AJ: Yeah. 1 
DC: And the way that my experience has been in transitioning, Ive seen all of that taken away in a 2 very, very stark, unapologetic way.  I think I can educate people about privilege better than most 3 people can because I understand it in a very personal way.  Its so sad though that a lot of times 4 trans people arent as . . . I dont know, progressive or as liberated as they could be.  And its 5 because of how toxic masculinity and how toxic patriarchy is in our society.  6 
AJ: Yeah.  I think thats a responsibility of our white trans sisters to really speak out about that 7 privilege.  I think that statement that you made, that #transisbeautiful is an absolute perfect 8 way to end this interview.  I cant believe weve gone an hour and ten minutes.  Its like the 9 fastest hour and ten minutes ever.  Youre so articulate, youre so beautiful, youre so generous.  10 We met for the first time at the Great Plains Affirming Campus Conference. 11 
DC: #GPACC. 12 
AJ: #GPACC, which was in Fargo.  So I just want to congratulate you again on a great conference.  I 13 hope that next year it is bigger and better and until we meet again, Darcy. 14 
DC: Until we meet again.   15 
AJ: Thank you. 16 
DC: Thank you. 17 

