   
Steinarr Harriday Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
    
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
April 20, 2016 
 
 
   

 
  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
   
 
Andrea Jenkins -AJ 1 
Steinarr Harriday  -SH 2 
 3 
 4 
AJ: So, hello.  My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the oral historian for the Transgender Oral 5 History Project at the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  Today is April 20, 2016, 6 and I am in Apple Valley, Minnesota, at the home of Steinarr Harriday.   7 
SN: Harriday  yes. 8 
AJ: Steinarr Harriday.  So Steinarr, Im going to ask you to state your name, and if you could please 9 spell it just so I make sure I have the correct spelling.  State your gender identity and your 10 gender assigned at birth and your pronouns if you use them. 11 
SN: OK.  So my name is Steinarr, thats S-t-e-i-n-a-r-r, and the last name is Harriday, H-a-r-r-i-d-a-y.  12 My gender is male or trans male, my gender at birth was female.  I prefer male pronouns 13 he/him/his.  And I think that was it.   14 
AJ: That was it. 15 
SN: All right.   16 
AJ: Thats awesome.  Boy, this is really great to be able to sit down and speak with you today. 17 
SN: Thank you. 18 
AJ: Tell me, Steinarr, what is your earliest memory in life?  It doesnt have to be related to your 19 gender identity at all, although if it is thats great and thats fine, Im not averse to that.  But just 20 what is your earliest memory, just to kind of get our juices going?   21 
SN: For some reason I recall something when I was . . . I have to say probably when I was 18 months 22 old.  23 
AJ: OK. 24 
SN: I was . . . I have three older sisters and one of them, closest to me in age, she had a friend over 25 and they were placing me in the crib, having a fun game of it because I was already crawling out 26 of the crib. 27 
AJ: Oh wow, at 18-months old? 28 
SN: At 18-months old.  I was just kind of jungle-gym, just had to do something to keep my energy 29 going, so they got me in the crib and I crawled out and I was looking for them and they had 30 already, of course, long since gone but I . . . thats kind of what I remember. 31 
AJ: You remember that, wow. 32 
SN: Yeah.  Which they saw is kind of not . . . youre not supposed to remember that but nobody else 33 was there when I was there crawling out of the crib and then placing me in it.  They cant 34 remember it, my sister and her friend. 35 
AJ: Really?  They have no recollection but it sticks in your mind.   1 
SN: Its there, yeah. 2 
AJ: Wow, thats pretty cool.  Where did you grow up, Steinarr?   3 
SN: I grew up in Lakeville, Minnesota.  So, just a stones throw away from here in Apple Valley.  It 4 was interesting. 5 
AJ: Lakeville.  Did you go to elementary school there? 6 
SN: I went to elementary school through high school in Lakeville. 7 
AJ: Is that right?   8 
SN: Yes. 9 
AJ: What elementary school did you go to? 10 
SN: I went to Christina Huddleston Elementary School and the teachers . . .  11 
AJ: H-u-d-d-l-e-s-t-o-n? 12 
SN: Yeah, thats it.  Yeah.  It was good.  Well, I was in special ed.  I had hyperactivity and that teacher 13 was actually really cool.  Im still in touch with her and she knows about my transition.  Shes 14 super cool. 15 
AJ: Youre still in touch with your kindergarten teacher? 16 
SN: Kindergarten to 3rd grade I had her. 17 
AJ: Oh, you had the same teacher? 18 
SN: For special ed.   19 
AJ: OK. 20 
SN: For my hyperactivity as they called it. I remember them talking about ADHD and I thought it was 21 80, the number.  ADHD.  And I was like, I dont know what that is.   22 
AJ: Funny.  So you had interaction with the same teacher for a long period of time. 23 
SN: Yeah, so she had a big impact on me  in a positive way.   24 
AJ: And you guys are still connected today? 25 
SN: Yeah, we still talk.  I talked with her probably . . . maybe a week ago.   26 
AJ: Is that right?   27 
SN: Yeah.   28 
AJ: And shes fully aware of your gender transition? 29 
SN: Yeah.  Ive had a hard time coming out to people and so when I tried to come out to her she was 1 like, I think I know what youre saying but I dont want to jump to conclusions.  I was like, Just 2 go ahead and say it.  And she said, I think youre transitioning from one gender to another, 3 something like that.  And I was like, Yup, thats it.  And she was like, OK, well, whatever you 4 need to do, basically.  Shes been fully supportive and we communicate all the time.   5 
AJ: Interesting.  Did she have a sense of your gender . . . I guess, its hard to find language, but 6 gender dysphoria?  Well use the language thats used in the medical . . .  7 
SN: Yeah.  I think no.  She says that she always will kind of remember me as kind of that little girl, 8 but that she can kind of see it, she could see it in the sense that I was always hanging out with 9 guys, I was in boys clothes 24/7. 10 
AJ: Boys clothes? 11 
SN: Boys clothes and rough and tumble.  I got hurt more than the guys did playing football and stuff 12 at recess.  I think she could kind of see it in that way.  I think I even said, like in the classroom 13 and stuff, Oh my gosh, why are we playing with dolls, thats for girls?  That kind of thing.  I 14 gendered things a lot more, I think, than other kids did and I think maybe thats hindsight  that 15 that was my way of saying I was not aligning right.  16 
AJ: The gender people thought you were, or the gender you were assigned at birth. 17 
SH: Yeah. 18 
AJ: Do you think other kids picked up on that?  Were you teased as a kid around gender issues or 19 gender identity? 20 
SH: I was a little bit.  I played football for four years. 21 
AJ: Is that right? 22 
SH: Yeah. 23 
AJ: On the boys team? 24 
SH: Yeah.   25 
AJ: No way. 26 
SH: Oh, it was awesome.  I loved it.  There was . . .  27 
AJ: In high school or in grade school? 28 
SH: Two years in elementary school and two years in middle school.  By the time I got to high school 29 I couldnt take the . . .  30 
AJ: The pounding. 31 
SH: Yeah.  It wasnt so much the physical pounding, it was more the emotional pounding.  I could 32 deal with the physical stuff, it was the emotional stuff I couldnt deal with.  I remember 6th grade 33 there was this one boy and his brother  the one kid was my age and the brother was a year 34 older.  They were relentless in trying to, I think, break me down.  There was one year, I was 1 talking about how many sacks I had gotten in football and it was like 12 or 13 . . .  2 
AJ: Wow, thats amazing. 3 
SH: Yeah, I was really proud  like, Look at me, here I go.  I think it had more to do with my 4 positioning and I was like, Dude, I want to stay at this position all the time.  But, he had to go 5 and make a point of drawing a picture of me with 12 or 13, whatever it was, scrotums all over 6 me. 7 
AJ: Oh 12 sacks. 8 
SH: Yeah.  So that was kind of the various kind of things that they would do throughout when I had 9 him in my class in different areas throughout grade school to middle to high school and 10 everything and his brother was just a year older. 11 
AJ: So he was a bully? 12 
SH: I suppose.  I never really have ever said I was bullied, but I suppose you could call it that.  I guess 13 I just never . . . I never want to say I was bullied because I feel like someone else has had it 14 worse  with anything, its like oh someone else has it worse so I dont want to say it.  15 
AJ: Yeah, thats understandable, I think.  But it doesnt negate the fact that you were harassed 16 around your gender identity  or around your identity, period. 17 
SH: Yeah. 18 
AJ: So, what was it like playing football with the boys though? 19 
SH: Oh gosh, it was awesome.  Once I kind of proved myself . . . for the first season it was a constant 20 thing.  I remember my first practice I was so nervous I forgot to put my mouth guard in and we 21 had to do a play where . . . it was like a drill where we had to go and tackle the dummy or 22 whatever, I dont remember the lingo anymore.  But, I didnt have my mouth guard in and the 23 coach was so upset.  Harriday, youve got to go back and do that with your mouth guard in.  24 And I was like, Oh, crap.  My teammates were lined up behind me just super angry and stuff. 25 
AJ: Oh wow. 26 
SH: And I was like, OK, Ive got to get this right if Im going to continue doing this. 27 
AJ: Funny. 28 
SH: I had to keep proving myself and going more than 110% even.  If I messed up it was like, at that 29 point, Well there goes the girl on the team.  But I loved it  that outlet was the best outlet 30 ever. 31 
AJ: I mean its such a sport . . . women are athletes, theres no question about that, but football is 32 considered such a male sport that to be able to participate on that level is pretty remarkable  33 even junior league football, I guess, you would call it.  What position did you play? 34 
SH: I played pretty much everything.  By the time I got into junior high, we had 12 or 13 guys on the 1 team, so we were back and forth the whole time.  So, I played the clich girl positions  kicker 2 and punter.  But, I also played right tackle on offense  or right guard, excuse me, on offense; 3 left tackle on defense.  Sometimes I would play left end on defense as well and left end was 4 where I was getting . . . 5 
AJ: You got your 12 sacks. 6 
SH: Exactly.  I knew how to scoot around the guys . . . I was small enough where I could just, but also 7 I was kind of portly at that age so I could just kind of scoot around the guy and use my weight to 8 get to the quarterback. 9 
AJ: Push them out of the way. 10 
SH: Yeah, it was so much fun.  But, I just . . . I dont know.  I definitely carried my weight and then 11 some. 12 
AJ: Did you guys win a lot of games? 13 
SH: Ugh, no.  My 6th grade year we did, we did really well.  We had an amazing coach.  The other 14 coaches were really amazing too, we just didnt have the manpower to keep going through.  By 15 the time we got to junior high there was this new program that had just started with traveling 16 football, where you could pull out of the schools and go pay extra money to go traveling.  Well, 17 the guys that could do that, which in Lakeville a lot of people have extra money to do that, so 18 thats why we had about 12 or 13 guys on the team at one time . . .  19 
AJ: Oh, because people were going and playing somewhere else. 20 
SH: Yes.  And so, we would play against these big farm boys and they actually did this crazy 21 recruiting thing where they would, in order to get on the A team, they would have a 150 lb. limit 22 . . . or restriction.   23 
AJ: If you weighed more than that you couldnt . . .  24 
SH: If you weighed less than that you couldnt, not a limit but a restriction.  So if you were 149 lbs, 25 you couldnt get on the team.  So, we were up against these big farm boys and so we were just 26 getting pummeled and the bus rides homes werent always that great but the bus rides to the 27 games were awesome.   28 
AJ: Did you play any other sports? 29 
SH: Yeah, I played soccer as well and basketball for a little while.  I quit basketball because of the 30 politics and then tried to pick it up again, which was . . . its not like riding a bike.  Doing free 31 throws, I just put too much force into it so the free throw would go to half-court.  It was bad.  At 32 one point there was a girl on the team, on the opposing team that we played, and she said, Oh, 33 you should play football.  And I was like, I did.  I was like, Yeah, thank you for saying that. 34 
AJ: So football kind of limited your basketball game a little bit. 35 
SH: Yeah, I think so.  I was just so into lifting and stuff.  And then I also, in 7th grade, I started playing 36 lacrosse as well. 37 
AJ: Oh wow, another rough sport. 1 
SH: Well, girls lacrosse isnt as rough.  Its interesting, in 8th grade I think it was, I petitioned to play 2 on the boys team and they said, Well, no, we have a girls team so you have to play on that  3 either you play up or you play where you are but you have to be on the girls team.  In 4 hindsight its like, Well, thats your guys loss, in a sense that this is where I was supposed to 5 be, I was supposed to be on the guys team.  I feel like its kind of where we were last year or the 6 year before as far as the state and the laws ago about . . .  7 
AJ: Two years ago. 8 
SH: Yeah, the laws with letting trans kids play on the correct team.  But, of course, I wasnt 9 identifying . . . 10 
AJ: Jae Bates was one of the students who was really pushing that.  Did you ever know Jae? 11 
SH: The name sounds vaguely familiar.  When you said the name something kind of . . . a bell rung in 12 my head.  I was reading up on it and I have a friend who . . . Katrina Plotz, I dont know if youre 13 familiar with her, but she does a lot of . . . I think she works with the school specifically with 14 OutFront.  Its funny to see her emails kind of come through with OutFront stuff.  Its like, OK, 15 this is from OutFront, this isnt from her exactly.  Well it is. 16 
AJ: Yeah, I think I have met Katrina  when you said she works with OutFront.  Yeah, there has been 17 some great strides and, I think, advancements in high school athletics . . . trans-identified high 18 school athletes being able to play on the sports team that they most identify with. 19 
SH: Yeah. 20 
AJ: So it sounds like school was a pretty good experience for you. 21 
SH: Yeah, there were some difficulties, I think, with some not so nice kids, even more so I think . . . 22 with being the token. 23 
AJ: Because you identify as bi-racial, right? 24 
SH: Yeah.  And so I used humor a lot to kind of get through it and so I think that almost opened the 25 door for more . . . like allowing kids to think that that was OK.  So, that was almost kind of my 26 fault  not almost, it was my fault kind of being like, Oh, you can use this pejorative term or 27 that pejorative term.   28 
AJ: Well it was your default, I wouldnt say . . . I dont know, I wouldnt say it was your fault per se.  29 Its their behavior, you cant take the credit for their behavior.   30 
SH: Yeah, exactly.  And weight and stuff was always an issue for me.  And again, it goes back to the 31 kid and his brother, the one in my grade and one older than me, they liked to use that too 32 against me.  It was kind of a sore spot.  But ultimately, school . . . I flourished.  I cant complain.  33 There was so many things that were good, that if I just focus on the negative . . . 34 
AJ: Yeah, it outweighed the bad stuff.   35 
SH: Exactly. 36 
AJ: Thats awesome.  How was family life?  You have these three older sisters.   1 
SH: Yeah, oh gosh.  I loved them to death.  I adored them and I think they really loved me, and still 2 do.  I still love them obviously.  Theres just always this kind of point of contention of who is my 3 mom today.  Its nice though. 4 
AJ: Because it sounds like your sisters are much older. 5 
SH: Much older, yeah.  My oldest sister is 19 years old, then the next one is 15 years older, and then 6 the next one is seven years older. 7 
AJ: Oh, so they were . . . they had lived life a lot when you came on the scene. 8 
SH: Yeah, actually with my oldest sister there was, I guess, a rumor, since she was studying abroad 9 in, I think, Italy, there was a rumor that she wasnt actually studying abroad, because my mom 10 was pregnant with me at the time, but then all of a sudden here I am and my sister is with me at 11 her college and people were like, You werent studying abroad, you were just off having a 12 baby, or something.  All the stories and pictures and everything, it was like no, my mom was 13 the one that had me.  So yeah.  But I think the biggest kind of stressor . . . not stressor, I dont 14 want to use that term, but I keep using the point of contention . . .  15 
AJ: Thats a fine term. 16 
SH: Yeah, was between my dad and I.  It wasnt ever really, I think, about my gender identity or my 17 expression.  I dont know if Im supposed to use names or not but . . . 18 
AJ: Well, yeah  its up to you.  Its your choice. 19 
SH: I think Ill omit names, so I have a sister who is gay.  By the time I was little it was pretty well 20 known in the family so me dressing however I wanted and whatever wasnt a big deal for my 21 dad.  I just think that being this rambunctious little kid while he was dealing with health issues 22 and he was quite older, then he also had some issues with bi-polar and the mania manifesting 23 into more of a kind of angry side.  I understand now that it wasnt him, but as a kid I couldnt 24 really understand. 25 
AJ: Yeah, you couldnt process that.   26 
SH: So we didnt get along well very much, my dad and I, and I regret that I couldnt kind of patch 27 that up before he passed. 28 
AJ: So your father has passed away.  Im sorry. 29 
SH: Yeah, December 2014.  Thank you.  So that was hard.  I never was able to, I guess, build the 30 courage to come out to him about either my gender identity or my sexual identity.  So, its . . . 31 thats one thing that I grapple with, and also I miss the dad I didnt know because I hear these 32 really awesome stories about him and how hes really well dressed, really well groomed.  I did 33 see that a little bit when I was younger but I didnt see it in the same kind of way as other 34 people did.  Like shaving and stuff now, he was really good at shaving  I wish I could ask my dad 35 how to shave, right? 36 
AJ: Because you have a beard now.   37 
SH: Yeah, yeah  and I love it.  Its like my little pet.   1 
AJ: So you clearly figured out some kinds of ways of shaving. 2 
SH: Yeah, yeah.  Ive talked to . . . and this is interesting.  There is a place in the Mall of America 3 called The Art of Shaving. 4 
AJ: Yeah, Ive seen that  Ive never been in there. 5 
SH: Its really nice and the guys there are really nice and theres a couple of women that work there.  6 I havent actually interacted with them because Ive always just been pounced on by the guys.  7 But the manager there, I told him right away because it was pretty obvious when I first started 8 going there  I only had like a couple stray hairs, but I was just really excited about it.  Its just 9 funny how all that works.  I was like . . . well, I didnt feel like I could skirt the issue so Im like, 10 Im transitioning and Im just kind of trying to figure this stuff out.   11 
AJ: Wow. 12 
SH: I was really freaked out and we started talking about everything from like weight lifting to family 13 and different things like that.  But it got to the end of the conversation and he says, You know, I 14 could lose a sale here and customers, but Im extremely conservative and right wing and I 15 believe in marriage between a man and a woman, but I respect people too and things like that.  16 And I was like, This is exactly what it needs to be  like this dialogue between people. 17 
AJ: Right.  Wow. 18 
SH: Youre not going to get anywhere if you just kind of hold your position.  And so, Ive been going 19 back there because we were able to have a dialogue instead of this fighting back and forth.  Hes 20 helped me every time since. 21 
AJ: Is that right? 22 
SH: Yeah, and telling me, Oh, you need to go with the grain and then maybe across the grain and 23 then maybe one more time against the grain.  Just, Hows it going coming in?  Hes like, If 24 you just want to come in and talk, thats totally cool, we can talk about anything. 25 
AJ: Use hot water to loosen up the follicles. 26 
SH: Exactly  yeah.  So, we talk about shaving, we talk about lifting.  Its awesome. 27 
AJ: The Art of Shaving.  So youve got a new friend who is a right-wing conservative, self-proclaimed 28 bigot . . . I dont know. 29 
SH: Yeah, yeah exactly, I dont know.  Maybe hes softened . . .  30 
AJ: Clearly hes not a bigot.  He has opened his mind and his heart and his friendship to you. 31 
SH: Yeah, I think thats how these things kind of change is you open your mind and your heart to 32 things.  And thats what, I think, going back to family is what I really appreciate about my 33 parents, and my sisters too  but I think they got it from my parents, is that they taught us that.  34 You dont close yourself off, and your mind off, to other ideas and stuff in order to gain 35 knowledge and experience.  You have to, you know  the old clich, walk a mile in another 1 persons shoes.  I think that has helped me.  Going to the BECAUSE Conference that Ive gone to 2 a couple of times . . .  3 
AJ: What is BECAUSE? 4 
SH: Oh, Im sorry.  BECAUSE . . . I dont know what it stands for, but its organized by the Bisexual 5 Organizing Project and theyre not just for bisexuals, its for everybody under the umbrella of 6 bisexual, queer, questioning, trans, intersex.  Anybody who kind of identifies . . . 7 
AJ: Pansexual. 8 
SH: Pansexual, thank you.  I identify as pansexual. 9 
AJ: Oh really? 10 
SH: Yeah, that was something that kind of going to the BECAUSE Conference I learned  that I was . . 11 . I know that bisexual is really not as binary as people make it seem to be, but I feel like 12 pansexual fits more for me so just . . . Im almost to the point where Im non-labeling.  I feel like I 13 love whoever I love, its not about . . .  14 
AJ: What their body type is or what their genitalia is or . . . 15 
SH: Exactly.  If I hadnt gone to this conference and learned this, I think it would have . . . and also, 16 being able to be open-minded as my parents have taught me, I think Id be at a disadvantage 17 today.  I dont think I would have been as out with my sexual orientation and been as able to be 18 as far along as I am in my transition.  There is certain things that . . . because of growing up in 19 such a bigoted church, I was so . . . I was close-minded about sex positivity and so I was like, 20 You know what?  I need to learn more about this.  I cant just judge without knowing.  So I 21 went to a think about Kink. 22 
AJ: K-i-n-k. 23 
SH: K-i-n-k.  Kink.  Yeah, and BDSM.   24 
AJ: Like a workshop or . . .  25 
SH: A workshop where they were talking about it, what it is, what it isnt.  Its not 50 shades of gray.  26 Ive learned a lot and I cant judge this, if this is what people want and this is what helps people 27 express their sexuality and their sexual freedom then thats what they need to do.  More power 28 to them because its such a judgmental, oppressive world.  If thats what we want to do . . . I 29 really appreciated that they had that. 30 
AJ: Thats awesome, Im thrilled to hear about that.  So you grew up in sort of a religious household 31 but how do you identify today?  Are you still part of the church? 32 
SH: I go when theres food - its pretty bad.  Its the truth though, I cant deny it anymore. 33 
AJ: Ahhh, you like the church basement food, huh?   34 
SH: Yeah.   35 
AJ: The . . . what do you call it?  The casseroles . . .  1 
SH: Hot dishes, yeah. 2 
AJ: The hot dishes. 3 
SH: Yeah, its very much where my mom goes to church now, they do the hot dishes and . . .  4 
AJ: Jell-O salads. 5 
SH: And bars. 6 
AJ: And the bars, yes  youve got to have the bars. 7 
SH: Thats what I really go for are the bars. 8 
AJ: The bars  there you go. 9 
SH: Although Im trying to lose weight so I cant do it as much.  But, no  the rest of my family is still 10 very much Lutheran.  My dad was a Lutheran pastor, he was retired by the time I was born.  But, 11 the irony, I think, of this whole thing was that my sister who is gay found this church  they 12 wanted a quiet small church so that we could all go too.  I wasnt born yet, not that I would have 13 had any say anyways, so we ended up going there and it became this huge mega-church in the 14 epicenter of Lakeville.   15 
AJ: Really? 16 
SH: At least they try to think so, I dont know if they really are.  But theyre very close-minded.  I 17 have this book that I had to do for confirmation  you have to do this whole thing before you 18 can get confirmed and theres a Topic 10 that talks about safe sex and marriage and sex and 19 relationships and why is it that God doesnt want us to have sex before we get married, what 20 possible damage can premarital sex have on us  physically, mentally and spiritually.  It kind of 21 goes from that  the verse of the week was, Free from sexual immorality, all other sins a man 22 commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.   23 
AJ: Hmmm . . . wow. 24 
SH: So its . . . that kind of stuck with me throughout life and because of that, and they actually 25 spoke specifically about homosexuality, they actually have that as a clause on their church 26 website now, that we believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. 27 
AJ: Oh really? 28 
SH: Right after the vote from the supreme court came down, or the ruling from the supreme court 29 came down, saying that the ban was unconstitutional for same-sex marriage, that Sunday, which 30 was actually Pride Sunday here . . .  31 
AJ: Yeah, absolutely, I remember it well. 32 
SH: Yeah, you were the Grand Marshal.   33 
AJ: I was the Grand Marshal. 34 
SH: Ahh, I wish . . . I havent been to Pride, thats my one thing I want to go to. 1 
AJ: Its on your queer bucket list? 2 
SH: Yes, exactly.  But they spoke on Pride Sunday, and they pointed it out too because I saw it  I 3 was curious and they post all of their things on their website, their sermons, and they posted a 4 big sermon about how bad it was that that had happened.   5 
AJ: Oh wow.  Does your sister still go to this church? 6 
SH: No  oh goodness no.  She has long since left and my parents have left because they actually 7 kicked out a family member . . . or not a family member but a family friend for not leaving a 8 committed relationship that she was in with her partner.   9 
AJ: In a same-sex relationship. 10 
SH: Yes.  Theyre now married and have a kid who is . . . 15.  Why would she have left that? 11 
AJ: So they are not a . . . this is not a welcoming and affirming church? 12 
SH: Absolutely not.   And so that was my taste of religion right there.  I think had I had different 13 tastes of it I would have been more open to being in religion or something. But right now, as the 14 foreseeable future is, Im atheist and Im cool with it.  15 
AJ: So Steinarr, when is the first time you recognized that you may not be the gender you were 16 assigned at birth? 17 
SH: The age that always comes up for me is six.  There was this time I was showering, I think it was, 18 where I was like, I wish there was a surgery that could change . . .  Literally I thought surgery, 19 That could change me into a boy from a girl.  And I was like, Oh, thats silly, there is no such 20 thing, and even if there was, surgery is . . . 21 
AJ: Scary, expensive. 22 
SH: Exactly.  I was like, Let me just tuck that in the back of my head, I dont want to deal with that.   23 
AJ: But you had that recognition though  that that might be something that applied to you and it 24 might be something that you think about, and then you buried it. 25 
SH: I did, yeah. I didnt really . . . there was absolutely no resources in the community for it.  They 26 had the Gay Straight Alliance, but I didnt really identify with that.  I also, for me, I feel like it 27 would have been unsafe to go to that.  I always felt like I maybe would have wanted to go to 28 that in high school, but I was afraid to.  Being in sports, I had a friend once say, Wouldnt it be 29 awful to have a lesbian on the team because she would just be staring at us in the locker room?  30 And so I was like, Oh, OK, Ill keep that quiet. 31 
AJ: Yeah, dont say that. 32 
SH: I never identified as lesbian but Ive always identified as something other than straight, so that 33 would have been scary for them.  34 
AJ: Right. 35 
SH: To question their whole idea of safety, but I wasnt able to . . . Google wasnt born yet and there 1 is AOL with its style of . . . and they had parent restrictions on there, I dont think I would have 2 been able to look up anything about sex or anything like that. 3 
AJ: Right.  So, what terms do you use to describe yourself today and how has that changed over 4 time?  5 
SH: I basically just describe myself as male. I dont even really say trans a whole lot.  Sometimes I  6 feel like Im not trans enough, sometimes I feel like Im not male enough.  Its a weird thing.  But 7 I very much, when I talk with myself, Im like, Come on, man, Come on, dude, get it 8 together.  Whereas before Id be like, Come on, girl, lets go.   9 
AJ: This is your self-talk. 10 
SH: Self-talk, yes.  Just working out and . . . I was working out yesterday, trying to  I havent worked 11 out very much in a long time.  I was like, Come on, dude, just come on  just one more rep.  12 Where before I would have been like, Come on girl, get it together.   13 
AJ: Right. 14 
SH: And I find myself . . . I try to allow people grace and I dont like getting upset with people.  If I 15 know theyre trying and they slip up with a pronoun or with my name and they go, Oh, sorry, I 16 mean Steinarr, or something.  Ive said, Come on, girl, a couple times in the last nine-plus 17 months. 18 
AJ: To yourself. 19 
SH: To myself.  If I slip up why can I get mad at someone else for slipping up. 20 
AJ: So how long have you been out? 21 
SH: I have been completely out for . . . lets see, 10 months?  Well, completely since starting 22 hormones, which is just over nine months. But then, I was partially out probably two months 23 before that.  I started hormones in July . . . yeah, so it would have been the end of April when I 24 was kind of coming out and I was testing the waters more even before that, but it was like, Im 25 afraid, but I cut all my hair off in the end of April, I think, last year.  Well not cut it all off, but it 26 was about this long before.   27 
AJ: So shoulder-length.   28 
SH: Yeah. 29 
AJ: Did you wear it in a bob?   30 
SH: Yeah, like a . . . I dont know, I was just like, I dont like my hair, and Id just pull it back.   31 
AJ: So did people freak out when that happened? 32 
SH: People were like, Oh, you got a summer do.  I was like, Yup, thats what it is.  I already knew 33  I was preparing for . . . my mind was set.  I finally felt so much better.  It was weird because I 34 was already feeling so masculine, even though I wasnt binding with the chest binders and stuff, 35 but I felt so much better just from a haircut.  And its weird because even starting hormones, 1 theres a lot of things . . . I feel a lot better and theres a lot of things I still have to work with at 2 the Center for Sexual Health. 3 
AJ: OK, so youre part of the Center for Sexual Health?  4 
SH: Yes. 5 
AJ: At the University of Minnesota. 6 
SH: At the University of Minnesota.  I go there because I did suppress it for so long and I do have a 7 lot of shame and guilt, I think, just stemming back to that church. 8 
AJ: Wow. 9 
SH: I think thats really where it comes from.  I cant see where else it may have come from. 10 
AJ: Well, our society kind of . . . 11 
SH: Yes, thats actually true.  Society is a big piece too.  I mean look at all the bills popping up left 12 and right. 13 
AJ: Exactly.  The anti-transgender restroom bills and all of those kinds of things. 14 
SH: Yeah.   15 
AJ: Have you had any challenges or what kinds of challenges have you faced since beginning to 16 express your true gender identity?   17 
SH: Id say the one thing, or theres a couple of things.  Using bathrooms is still kind of hard for me, 18 only because Ive had an instance of being assaulted before transitioning so I just have a little bit 19 more fear than kind of going to the restroom still.  And then when I do phone calls and I try to 20 get my deepest voice possible, I still get, Oh, so what can we do for you, maam?  And its like, 21 Urghh. Its not a huge deal. 22 
AJ: They dont really know you at all. 23 
SH: Exactly. 24 
AJ: So theyre not trying to be mean. 25 
SH: No, exactly.  Its just this kind of, again, a societal pressure  we think its a pleasantry to say sir 26 or maam instead of just, How can we help you?   27 
AJ: Yes. 28 
SH: Period. 29 
AJ: How are you folks today?   30 
SH: Exactly.  So thats been a thing, like, Oh, lady.  Early on when it was not noticeable and I didnt 31 have a beard, thats why . . . I love my beard but if I felt like shaving it off, I dont think I could, 32 because I feel like Id still have a very feminine looking face.  So, there is that.  And then my 33 height too.  Im 55 and I remember I was trying to get something at the hardware store and it 1 was on the top shelf, way in the back and I had to ask another guy.  I was like, Im sorry, this is 2 kind of an awkward question, can you get this for me? Being 55 isnt easy.  And hes like, Its 3 awkward for all of us.  Im like, Say what?  Im sorry, I didnt know being nice to a . . . you 4 know, doing a random act of kindness was so hard for everybody.  But whatever. 5 
AJ: Whatever.  Did he get it for you? 6 
SH: He did.   7 
AJ: OK.   8 
SH: Begrudgingly but . . .  9 
AJ: There was no one around in the store that could help, huh? 10 
SH: No, there was nobody.  It was Menards and I found out that Menards is not actually a very 11 friendly place, I guess.  In the news I think there was something about not wanting to cooperate 12 or something. 13 
AJ: Oh wow.   14 
SH: I dont know. 15 
AJ: Im not familiar with that. 16 
SH: Maybe it wasnt Menards.  It was one of the hardware stores, a larger chain. 17 
AJ: OK.  So, sort of challenges around just correct pronoun use.  And youve identified by . . . youve 18 only been out for less than a year now so it takes time for people to get used to you.  Any 19 challenges with the medical industry or schools or other institutions that you interact with?   20 
SH: I dont think Ive had really any big issues with the medical industry.  Ive had issues getting my 21 hormones  just through insurance and stuff.  Im not working so the insurance through my 22 mom, because Im under 26 so I can still get insurance through her . . .  23 
AJ: Sure, so you have benefited from Obamacare.   24 
SH: Oh yes, I am a proud supporter of Obamacare.   25 
AJ: OK. 26 
SH: But my moms prescription insurance says, Well, because youre not male you cant get 27 testosterone because you dont have the indication of hypergonadism.  Im not really sure, I 28 didnt Google what it was but thats kind of the only issue there. 29 
AJ: Did that eventually work out? 30 
SH: So I do have insurance through the state so they covered it, strangely enough.  Im not going to 31 argue, it was just like a $25 co-pay, which is way cheaper than it would have been if I had to pay 32 out-of-pocket.  Im very grateful for Obamacare because all of my hormones and just check-ups 33 and stuff wouldnt have been covered if he hadnt passed all these laws. 34 
AJ: Oh wow, thats awesome.  Thats good news.  What about some of the positive aspects that 1 youve experienced since youve begun to express your true gender identity? 2 
SH: Ive had a lot.  I dont think Ive ever had any sort of intense . . . any sort of assault or anything.  I 3 think Im fortunate in that I do pass very easily and I . . .  4 
AJ: I mean people might think youre a short guy but . . .  5 
SH: Exactly.   6 
AJ: But I would say most people probably think youre a guy. 7 
SH: Exactly  short guy, little higher-pitched voice maybe but I cant complain at all.  Im very 8 fortunate and my family has been extremely accepting. 9 
AJ: Wow, thats so important. 10 
SH: Again, very fortunate because I know there are so many people that dont have that.  And, 11 medically Ive had to go to a couple different places for transgender care but Im now, for my 12 hormones, at the Mayo Clinic, they have a transgender clinic down there. 13 
AJ: In Rochester? 14 
SH: In Rochester. 15 
AJ: Oh, so you go there. 16 
SH: I go down there, yeah.   But only like once every three months or so.  If anybody needed . . . I 17 mean, the Center for Sexual Health, has such a long wait list.  I was already being seen for 18 something at the Mayo Clinic so I got an internal referral, but if people are being seen at Mayo 19 Clinic for other things and they can get into the Transgender Clinic, I would so recommend it. 20 
AJ: Really?  So the services are pretty good  and thats new. 21 
SH: In my experience.  It is, its about a year old.  The doctor that I see, I mean . . . gosh, she is so 22 compassionate, so caring, willing to listen, just everything.  If youre uncomfortable about 23 anything she will ride it out with you so to kind of ease any kind of discomfort.   24 
AJ: Thats awesome. 25 
SH: Yeah, theyre just amazing. 26 
AJ: So you literally came out at the same time as Caitlyn Jenner. 27 
SH: Oh gosh, yeah, I guess.  She had, I think, a little more help with the medical and finances.   28 
AJ: I would say  just a tiny little bit maybe.   29 
SH: Thats something that . . . its a little bit . . . I applaud her.  Its not an easy feat at all, for anyone.   30 
AJ: No. 31 
SH: But I think its kind of frustrating, I think, with the resources that shes had and the kind of 32 ignorance that she displays still to want to be a trans advocate for Ted Cruz, I mean, and still not 33 completely understanding what a lot of trans women go through.  I mean, its sad.  And then for 1 kind of more famous trans men, its kind of hard for me because Im finally comfortable with 2 myself and so Im like, Oh, I want to take care of my body, I want to look like Aydian Dowling 3 today or Laith Ashley yesterday.   4 
AJ: Laith? 5 
SH: Theres a Laith Ashley, hes a model from . . . I want to say Columbia.   6 
AJ: Oh wow.  Do you know how to spell it?   7 
SH: L-a-i-t-h.   8 
AJ: OK.  Laith. 9 
SH: Yeah.  I cant say whether or not he followed the WPATH, I cant accuse anybody of doing one 10 thing or not.  But, hes tall, dark, and handsome. 11 
AJ: So hes a person of color? 12 
SH: Hes a person of color, yes.  And he . . . probably a little bit darker than me and just . . . 13 
AJ: Super chiseled and . . . 14 
SH: Yeah, and just . . . just fine. 15 
AJ: I think I may have seen a photo of Laith . . . Ashley did you say? 16 
SH: Yeah, Ashley is the last name.  And I think . . . the thing thats hard for me is that you see these, 17 and I have to take it with a grain of salt, but you see these things and its like, The Top 10 Most 18 Gorgeous Trans Men Doing the Best Things for Trans Advocacy, and its like why cant just 19 regular not gorgeous trans men still be doing a lot for trans advocacy.  But . . .  20 
AJ: And the truth is that we know that they are, right? 21 
SH: Exactly. 22 
AJ: Those people exist. 23 
SH: And are probably . . . not necessarily for cis people in the sense that theyre not appeasing the 24 societal norm for whats OK for . . . I think people, and this totally is just an opinion, but I feel 25 like society, cis society I should say, is more comfortable with seeing a trans person, oooh scary, 26 if they look and walk and act more cis than as opposed to if we just express ourselves how we 27 are.  Even if were short or were tall or were heavy or were thing  were this, that or the 28 other, we have to be 120% cis in order for them to be like, Oh, yeah, this is a good thing.  Yeah 29 trans people are totally awesome.   30 
AJ: I think what youre referring to is called passing privilege. 31 
SH: Yes -  yes, there you go.  Or some people call it stealth, I think.  I have a little bit of the stealth  32 well, I have a lot, but I couldnt be a cover model or anything like that, for sure. 33 
AJ: No, you could  you absolutely could.   34 
SH: I havent had top surgery or anything. 1 
AJ: So speaking of that, what medical interventions have you undergone or are considering for the 2 future? 3 
SH: Yeah. Well . . .  4 
AJ: To the extent that you feel comfortable talking about that. 5 
SH: Yeah, well because of insurance things, my state insurance actually doesnt cover the top, or any 6 surgeries.  Because of the way my insurance is going to be playing out with my mom and with 7 her and her job and stuff, I have to . . . well, I dont have to, but binding and everything, I just 8 feel better doing surgery before I run out of the insurance that covers it 100%.  So I am doing it 9 at the end of June. 10 
AJ: Oh, so you already have it scheduled. 11 
SH: Yeah.  So it will be just under a year, which is quite fast, but in my feeling, my comfort and 12 everything, I feel like I have a lot of top dysphoria and things like that.  As far as bottom surgery, 13 so far down the line because that isnt covered and the cost and just also technology and things 14 arent there as much.  But I just . . . the top surgery for me is just . . . I also have this thing called . 15 . . I hate saying it because I feel like Im name dropping medically, but its called cholinergic 16 urticarial or something.  Its basically . . . I think its called heat hives or something where when I 17 . . .  18 
AJ: Heat hives? 19 
SH: Heat hives.  So whenever I get hot or if Im showering or if Im out in the sun too long and I get 20 hot, if Im exercising, if Im exposed to it too long, I start to hitch and then if Im exposed even 21 longer I start to get hives.  So Ive been on so many antihistamines for it that havent worked, 22 thats part of the reason why Im down at Mayo Clinic too  thats why I went down there for 23 the transgender clinic is because they thought maybe it was my hormones aggravating it but Ive 24 had it before.  So they are now trying to figure out another kind of way to intervene but they 25 think the binding could be making it worse.   26 
AJ: I was going to say, that creates a lot of heat and a lot of tightness.   27 
SH: Oh yeah. 28 
AJ: So the surgery potentially might alleviate some of those challenges.   29 
SH: They think so, yeah.  So there is kind of a lot of things interwebbed together.  Sorry, I dont know 30 if thats a word. 31 
AJ: Interweb  yeah.  People use it, I dont know.  Im sitting here and Im looking at all of this 32 musical equipment  youve got a drum set, youve got a banjo, youve got a folk guitar.  So you 33 must be a musician, an artist? 34 
SH: I am.  I try.  I havent played as much as I used to and I would like to.  But, yeah.  I was in drum 35 line in high school and stuff and grew up around music all the time.  My sisters all sing, two of 36 my sisters really play the piano  like a lot, theyre really into it. 37 
AJ: Like professionally? 1 
SH: Not professionally.  One sings kind of . . . I dont know if its professional.  We call her the 2 starving artist.  Hopefully its OK, maybe we needed to check with her on that, if shes OK with 3 that.  But she, great voice, really talented  they all are.  I remember, actually that sister, when I 4 was little and I would be upset or crying, she would sing to me, specifically Summertime from 5 Porgy and Bess.   6 
AJ: From Porgy and Bess, yeah.  I love that song. 7 
SH: Yeah, so whenever I get upset I hear that, and Sam Cookes version - I really love that one so I 8 have that version so whenever I get upset Ill play that version but its still not the same as my 9 sister.  10 
AJ: Do you play piano too? 11 
SH: A little bit.  I try . . . Im self-taught on that so I have to sit down and read a sheet of music for 12 about two hours and sort of plunk it out a little bit.  Yeah, its fun  I love it. 13 
AJ: Do you play in a band or have you ever been in a band beyond the drum line? 14 
SH: No, I havent.  I like audio engineering a lot so I think if I were ever going to do any sort of 15 performance area of it I would get even a little further beyond even being on stage and stuff and 16 just get in the studio and do that. 17 
AJ: Wow, thats awesome.  When is the first time you ever met a trans or gender queer person? 18 
SH: I think it was my cousin who was dating a trans man.  That was . . . well, theyve been on 19 again/off again and theyre not dating anymore. I think that was probably maybe eight years ago 20 or so.  He was who he was and it didnt bother me.  In the beginning it was like well this is a little 21 bit different but it was like . . . it so hit a nerve that I didnt really understand at the time, not in 22 a bad way but . . .  23 
AJ: Right, something about this person is appealing to me or something. 24 
SH: Yeah.  I was always like, Where is he?  Where is he today?  Why isnt he here?  I want to talk 25 with him, I want to hang out.   26 
AJ: Did you ever get a chance to do some of that? 27 
SH: Not a whole lot, hes kind of a busy guy . . . was/is. 28 
AJ: So hes local in this community. 29 
SH: Yeah, I dont know how involved he is in the trans community per se, but yeah. 30 
AJ: How did you know he was a trans guy? 31 
SH: We got to . . . got to?  Yeah, I would say we got the privilege to see him on his journey and 32 transition and stuff. 33 
AJ: OK, so he was in transition. 34 
SH: When they first started dating, yeah.  The family . . . her family, we call them cousins but were 1 not blood cousins  Hanai cousins, its a Hawaii term.   2 
AJ: Yeah. 3 
SH: I love that, I wish that we had something like that in English but I actually prefer using Hanai. 4 
AJ: In Black culture we call them play cousins.   5 
SH: Oh, there you go  play cousins.  Growing up in Lakeville I wouldnt have known that. 6 
AJ: You didnt have access to that language, yeah.   7 
SH: Yeah, so yeah, we do everything with them on the holidays and stuff.  So theyre actually totally 8 cool, even more so with me, because they had already been exposed to him.   9 
AJ: Thats pretty cool.  So you said in terms of your sexual identity you sort of identify as pan or 10 queer.  Are you in a relationship now? 11 
SH: I wish.  Thats the gnawing . . .  12 
AJ: Are you more attracted to female bodies, male bodies, is there . . .? 13 
SH: Thats the thing, its really fluid for me.  A year ago it was probably, I would say, more female; 14 today its probably a little more equal.  Its just . . . I think I just . . . Im really attracted to, and its 15 clich a little bit, but the personality, the kindness, the way that I see someone interacting with 16 other people and the way theyre treating others.  Its such a strong value for me that I just . . . I 17 think it evolves . . . or morphs into an attraction for me.   18 
AJ: OK.  So your relationship history, have you been more involved with either gender or the other 19 or has it been pretty equal? 20 
SH: I mean, I really cant say that Ive been in a relationship actually.  We had a dating rule growing 21 up, so there was that.  But then afterwards, the people that I dated, it was kind of like I broke 22 the dating rule but only it was like . . . I wrote on a note . . . it was funny, I was always very much 23 the assertive one.  Like I asked this guy, Will you go out with me? on a piece of paper, with the 24 boxes  so clich.  Yes, no, maybe.  And then it was like we went to a movie, he bought me a box 25 of candy and that was it, that was the extent of our relationship.   26 
AJ: Oh wow. 27 
SH: And then another guy I was with, it was like less than a day and he was like, Oh, I still have 28 feelings for my ex so see ya.  So thats kind of how its been 29 
AJ: So you havent been deeply engaged in relationships? 30 
SH: And thats something that is really missing for me.  Thats the hard one for me because I really 31 love people, but I dont, I guess, get out enough and now because I have kind of become 32 detached from my friends because of coming out  first coming out as bisexual and they were 33 like, Hmm, yeah  see ya. 34 
AJ: Really? 35 
SH: And then now, of course, if they knew that I was trans I think it would be even more like . . .  1 
AJ: So none of your friends from prior to coming out have been in your life? 2 
SH: No, Ive reconnected with one person who has actually been supportive but thats just been . . . I 3 forgot, because its been in like the last week.  Shes cool about it, but otherwise everybody else 4  like the one person I was talking about who was my lacrosse teammate who was afraid of 5 lesbians in the locker room, heaven forbid, she . . . we used to call each other sisters and she 6 actually blocked my phone number.  Her mom . . . I gave her a gift because she had surgery, it 7 was just a thing I like to do with anybody if theyre going through a hard time or going through 8 something, I get something from the dollar store or the dollar section at Target, and get them a 9 gift and a card, get well and whatever.  Her mom returned it to me at our front door and didnt 10 even tell . . . just left a message on my moms voice mail that said, Were not accepting gifts 11 from her at this time. 12 
AJ: Oh, thats hard. 13 
SH: It was hard.  I mean I bring it up only just because of the context of this but . . . I actually saw her 14 almost a year ago and she didnt know yet that I was out.  I was out, but Id cut my hair, was 15 definitely dressing more masculine and stuff, but we were just playing on a pick-up alumni game 16 and she happened to show up and I happened to show up  it was just kind of anybody who 17 showed up, showed up.  So I talked to her and was like, Are we good?  OK, were good.  But I 18 wasnt going to tell her about me being trans.  I just like to clear the air with things, I dont want 19 to hold grudges.  If she doesnt need to know, she doesnt need to know  if she finds out, thats 20 fine, but I dont need to give her another reason to kind of block my phone number, not that I 21 know her phone number to call her again. 22 
AJ: Wow, thats really tough.  So what was your coming out story like?  How did you come out to 23 people?   24 
SH: Well for my . . . as bisexual, I very much have a lot of shame with my identity with everything.  I 25 have this clause for anything for me, Its OK for everybody else, but not for me.  And so its 26 always been hard to come out  or it had been.  Its easier now, in some aspects I should say.  27 But, when I was coming out as bisexual it was like, You know how my one sister is gay, well Im 28 like her but I also like guys  you get it?  OK, awesome.  End of story, lets move along  how 29 about the weather kind of a thing. 30 
AJ: And thats what you said to your folks  to your mom? 31 
SH: To my mom, yeah.  And then my other two sisters and then other people, and I was like . . . 32 other people who didnt know my sister it was a little more difficult.  I was like, I really, really 33 like guys and I really kind of appreciate girls.  I couldnt form the words because I was just that 34 ashamed of it.  It was hard, I dont know again where I adopted that.  Ive gotten better at it but 35 its still hard and Im working through it.  I just . . . its not going to get better if I keep holding it 36 in and Im not going to be in a relationship so long as I hate who I am.   37 
AJ: No, youre not  so youve got to love who you are. 38 
SH: Exactly.  Coming out as trans, it was . . . I think I just sort of did it.  With my mom, I just sort of 1 did it.  You know how I used to wear guys clothes all the time and now Im wearing them 2 again, this is what it is.  I just feel much better about it. Then with my sisters, it was actually a 3 little bit more difficult . . . well, with my one sister . . . well, with two sisters it was really easy.  I 4 met with them and had lunch with them, separately  I met with them each separately.  It was 5 really easy.  My oldest sister, the one who is 19 years older, I had a harder time coming out with 6 her for each thing.  I actually didnt come out to her about my sexuality at the time, at least 7 what I thought I was, until I was . . . I came out as bisexual to everybody else when I was 18 but 8 then with her I was probably 21 just because I was a little more apprehensive because she is so . 9 . . shes a more dominant personality, Type A. 10 
AJ: Type A.  Is she married?  Kids? 11 
SH: She doesnt have kids, she has some health issues where she cant have kids but shes very . . . 12 she knows what she wants and she knows how shes going to get it  that type of a thing.  So, 13 she . . . I tried not to step on any toes but I guess maybe I did . . . although she was happy about 14 that, but theres other things I guess she wasnt happy about in my letter.  Then I was trying to 15 meet with her  I wanted to do it in person, coming out as trans, and she kept kind of pushing it 16 out and so that I never was actually able to come out to her because then we had a death in the 17 family and so I was like Im dressing the way Im dressing, Im wearing a vest and a tie and 18 trousers. 19 
AJ: Right. 20 
SH: She ended up showing up, we didnt know because of her health if she was going to be there, 21 but she and her husband were there.  Then in an email, it was like, Oh, I see you decided to 22 become male.  No, I didnt really decide anything, if Ive decided anything it was to be my 23 authentic self. 24 
AJ: Right. 25 
SH: So that was the only hard part with coming out, was that I didnt really get to choose coming out 26 with her.  But with everybody else, I wanted to be a little bit more straight forward with family  27 with other people it was more like, So, you know, heres the deal.  Like I said with my former 28 teacher it was, Theres going to be some changes, Im excited about it and dont know how to 29 tell you, but shes been really cool about it all.   30 
AJ: Have you been involved or volunteered or ever worked for any trans-specific or any LGBT 31 organizations?   32 
SH: I did some data entry with OutFront. 33 
AJ: Oh cool. 34 
SH: It was just kind of a one-time thing, Id like to do more.  Ive also helped with the whole ballot 35 initiative in 2012 . . .  36 
AJ: The marriage equality . . .  37 
SH: Marriage equality, yeah.  For our side it was marriage equality, for them it was marriage 1 inequality. 2 
AJ: Yes, yes. 3 
SH: When putting it on the ballot.  But I helped do some phone banking and I helped put together a 4 Vote No rally, I guess  I dont know why Im using air quotes.  Thats, I guess, what it was.  It 5 was at a local church in the area and one of my sisters, the performer, came and did a piece 6 there because actually one of the people that was working for Minnesotans United for All 7 Marriage, went to St. Kates where my one sister teaches . . . or at that time she was doing 8 orientations and she had seen her orientation there and so she was like, I want her to do that 9 thing from the orientation at this rally.  So she did something similar to that.  And then I did, I 10 think, a little bit of data entry for them too.   11 
AJ: OK. 12 
SH: I dont know why I do data entry, I guess I come by it naturally  my mom is an accountant so I 13 do Excel spread sheets.  Theyre just kind of . . .  14 
AJ: Your thing. 15 
SH: My thing, even though I dont want to be on a computer all day, every day. 16 
AJ: Oh wow, OK.  What do you think the agenda is for the transgender community  if there is an 17 agenda?   18 
SH: I dont know so much if its for . . . well, I think its kind of both sides  or three sides maybe.  Its 19 for the cis straight community and the cis LGB community kind of coming together with the 20 trans community, and also the QQIA.  I think theres just this idea that, you know . . . Ive seen 21 the petition that these so-called feminists have put together on Change.org trying to drop the T 22 from LGBT and I think that that does more harm than good.  I think the whole point of feminism, 23 the whole point of equality is just that, its inclusion and equality  its not exclusion and . . . the 24 thing that Ive always said is, you know, differences are good because we can celebrate them 25 and, you know, I think thats where maybe . . . Im oversimplifying it, but I think we celebrate our 26 differences and they make us who we are.  I think the problem is when we start to box each 27 other into our differences and say, No, because youre different in this area you cant be in our 28 club, or whatever.  I really like the term intersectionality and Ive been trying to learn more 29 about it because, again, it was something that I learned at the Bisexual Organization Projects 30 BECAUSE Conference the first year I went.  I have found out . . . who was it that kind of created 31 it . . . or birthed it, Polly . . . someone Polly. 32 
AJ: Polly . . .  33 
SH: Or Polly . . . Pauli Murray. 34 
AJ: Murray  an attorney.   35 
SH: Yes.  So Ive been kind of trying to do a little more research on her and . . .  36 
AJ: Him.   37 
SH: Him, yeah because he was trans male. 1 
AJ: Trans masculine.   2 
SH: Yeah, because I dont have as much information because I just was listening to a podcast on 3 intersectionality and they mentioned Pauli Murray and I just thought it was so cool because I 4 never knew where it had come from and I just think that it is so important because we can have 5 these privileges and we can have . . . it takes away that black and white thinking.  People get so 6 upset with how we bring to light someones privileges because its like, Well, I also have these 7 disadvantages or areas where I might be oppressed, when were not saying those arent true 8 either.  I know I have a lot of privileges, Ive been very privileged in my transition, growing up  9 in a lot of areas, as opposed to a lot of other trans people.   10 
AJ: Sure.   11 
SH: And a lot of other bi-racial people and just a lot of things.  I think maybe integrating that into 12 more of the LGBT community and . . .  13 
AJ: This intersectional thinking. 14 
SH: Intersectional thinking  yeah, I think would be very helpful.  I dont know how that gets done 15 but I have a lot of ideas and I dont know how to implement any of them.   16 
AJ: You know, youve just got to keep talking about them. 17 
SH: Yeah. 18 
AJ: Steinarr, this has just been such a joy to sit and talk with you today.  I really appreciate you 19 sharing your life, your stories, your challenges, and your joys.  Is there anything I didnt ask you 20 about that you want to talk about or be sure to share? 21 
SH: You know, I . . . well, I guess the one thing I would say is that another struggle with coming out 22 as trans was I always struggled with OK, Im bisexual, how . . . I would be selfish if I were . . . 23 because the only time I felt like the clichd man trapped in a womans body was in that time.  If 24 Im bisexual I can have it all, sounds really kind of disgusting.  But why do I need to transition, 25 thats not necessary, and thats something that Ive felt for a long time.  And then once I realized 26 that this wasnt going away, I really am trans, then there was another issue . . . well not issue, 27 but struggle with embracing my femininity and still being able to be trans masculine but still, 28 you know, be a little more flamboyant in my gestures and stuff and realizing that I dont have to 29 define myself by other peoples definitions.  Im working on that and learning that and 30 ultimately I think Im just trying to navigate my way through this world.  Ive done gestures like 31 this and gone, Oh, a cis straight guy wouldnt do that, but I dont care. 32 
AJ: Yeah, because Im not a cis straight guy.   33 
SH: Exactly  far from it.   34 
AJ: Youre Steinarr. 35 
SH: Exactly  exactly.  Thats the thing, I forget labels sometimes too.  Theyre maybe helpful in some 36 areas but I am who I am.   37 
AJ: Wow.  On that note, I think we shall end.  I, again, appreciate the opportunity, and until we 1 meet again, my friend. 2 
SH: Yes, thank you so much. 3 
AJ: Bye-bye.   4 

