   
Gloria Allen Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
    
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
April 23, 2016 
 
 
   

 
  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
   
 
Andrea Jenkins -AJ 1 
Gloria Allen -GA 2 
 3 
 4 
AJ: So, hello.  Today is April 23, 2016.  My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the oral historian with 5 the Transgender Oral History Project.  We are sitting here in Minneapolis, Minnesota, just 48 6 hours after Prince has passed away  sadly, very sadly.  Im sitting here with Mama Gloria Allen, 7 a legend in her own time.  Gloria, how are you? 8 
GA: Im fine and thank you.  I enjoy Minneapolis, yes. 9 
AJ: Yes, yes.  So before we really dig in, Gloria can you just state your name, spell it for us, tell me 10 what is your gender identity today and what was your gender assigned at birth? 11 
GA: OK.  Well, my name is Gloria Allen and its G-l-o-r-i-a and last name is Allen, A-double l-e-n.  And 12 my gender identity is she, female.  And Ive been that way all my life.  I really came out of my 13 mamas womb slinging a pink purse so I know Im a girl, its no closet.  The only time I went to 14 the closet was to take clothes out.  I didnt hide my identity in the closet.  Ive been out all my 15 life and Im proud to be here to say that. 16 
AJ: Thats a beautiful thing. 17 
GA: Yes it is. 18 
AJ: Can you just say how old you are?  Do you mind? 19 
GA: I am 70-years-old. 20 
AJ: No way. 21 
GA: And I feel amazing.   22 
AJ: You look beautiful.   23 
GA: Thank you, thank you. And I say this, good genes.  My mother and father they were, I mean, 24 beautiful people and physically both of them were physically built. 25 
AJ: Really, just striking, huh? 26 
GA: Yeah, my father looked like a gladiator from the Roman days. 27 
AJ: Really? 28 
GA: Yes.  And my mother was a centerfold JET model.  My mother inspired me all of my life.  I guess 29 when I got up some size and would look at my mother and I would say, Ohh, I want to be just 30 like her.   31 
AJ: Really? 32 
GA: Yes. 33 
AJ: And it happened. 1 
GA: It happened. 2 
AJ: It happened because you could be on the cover of JET Magazine right now today. 3 
GA: Well, thank you.  And my mother, God rest her soul, my mother had 13 kids. 4 
AJ: Is that right? 5 
GA: Yes, and she looked amazing.  She didnt lose her figure or anything. 6 
AJ: Wow.  And you said your mother . . . we were talking last night and you said your mother was a 7 dancer. 8 
GA: Yes, my mother was a chorus line dancer and she danced with Sammy Dyer of Dance Troupe 9 and there was another famous lady, I cant think of her name  but my mother danced with the 10 same troupe as Eartha Kitt was in. 11 
AJ: Is that right? 12 
GA: And Eartha Kitt and my mother had the most amazing bodies and legs, they were known for 13 that. 14 
AJ: Well if she was anything like Eartha Kitt she was a knock-out. 15 
GA: Yes, she was  she was.  She was prettier than Eartha Kitt but her and Eartha Kitt had the same 16 body structure.  They had beautiful bodies and beautiful legs.   17 
AJ: Absolutely, because I think Eartha Kitt had her legs insured. 18 
GA: Yes, she did.  And my mother should have had hers insured.   19 
AJ: Well she had 13 babies. 20 
GA: Yes, she did. 21 
AJ: Where did you fit in that range? 22 
GA: Im the oldest. 23 
AJ: Are you really? 24 
GA: Im the oldest, yes.  The oldest out of all of them and that is so amazing.  I became, as they say, 25 the surrogate mother when my mother wasnt able to take care of them. 26 
AJ: When she was gone out dancing or doing what mothers have to do. 27 
GA: Yes, I was there.  I took on her role.   28 
AJ: Right, wow.  So the name Mama Gloria came to you very naturally. 29 
GA: Yes it did, yes it did.  And I am so proud to wear that title, Mama Gloria. 30 
AJ: Yeah, so I first learned about you, Mama Gloria, when you were honored in 2014. 31 
GA: Yes. 1 
AJ: For the Trans 100 Legacy Award.  So they named 100 people . . .  2 
GA: Yes, they did. 3 
AJ: But they gave you the Legacy Award.   4 
GA: They sure did.  And I didnt know anything about it.  When it was brought to my attention I had 5 just got out of the hospital. 6 
AJ: Oh no. 7 
GA: Because I suffer with diabetes and I just got out of the hospital and I wasnt feeling good and 8 Precious Davis called me up and she said, Mama Gloria, were having an affair at the Mayne 9 Theatre, I hope you can be there.  And by it being Precious, I said, Baby, Ill be there for you.   10 
AJ: Right. 11 
GA: I wasnt feeling all that great and I got there and I couldnt . . . Im looking at all these people and 12 the place, the venue was beautiful.  Im looking all around, wondering what is going on here.  13 And they were just leading me to seats and taking me upstairs to the make-up green room and 14 everything. So I said, I dont know what in the hell is going on here.  And then finally I saw the 15 little brochures and plaques on the table and my picture was on there.  And they said, The 16 Living Legend Award.  I was floored.   17 
AJ: Oh my goodness.  18 
GA: I was so floored.  I cried.  I was . . . so with Precious Davis and my other baby, Janet Mock, was 19 there  which I love her to no end. 20 
AJ: Janet Mock was there, I love her to death  yes. 21 
GA: And Laverne Cox was there. 22 
AJ: Laverne was there too? 23 
GA: Laverne was there and Angelica Ross.   24 
AJ: Angelica  yeah. 25 
GA: So I was surrounded by all these beautiful flowers and Im saying, Oh my God, here I am with all 26 my children.  I feel like Phoebe Tyler.   27 
AJ: Phoebe Tyler  oh my goodness. 28 
GA: Yes I did. 29 
AJ: Im more of an Erica girl myself.   30 
GA: OK.   31 
AJ: I know my All My Children stories. 32 
GA: And you are one of my babies too, you know.  I am so blessed. 1 
AJ: I am so proud to be mentioned with all of those beautiful women, who I know all of them. 2 
GA: And you are, you rank up there with them. 3 
AJ: Oh, thank you darling. 4 
GA: Im so proud that Im able to be here today to witness this.  It means a lot to me, it really does.  5 During the time that I was coming up, transgender  we didnt exist.  We were, as they say, 6 hidden behind rocks and closed doors and everything.  I refused to be hidden.  I didnt care what 7 people thought about me because Im out here and youre going to deal with me. 8 
AJ: Youre going to deal with me. 9 
GA: Yes. 10 
AJ: Today. 11 
GA: Yes. 12 
AJ: Oh my goodness.  Mama Gloria, so youre here in Minneapolis because theres been a play 13 written about your life.  And not necessarily about your life, but about some of the work that 14 you have done in your life  which was to start a Charm School.  Im assuming you did this after 15 you retired.  What did you do for your professional life? 16 
GA: My professional life, I was an LPN at the University of Chicago in Hyde Park.  At the time they 17 called it Billings Hospital.   18 
AJ: Right, Billings.  I remember Billings Hospital. 19 
GA: Yes.  And I was there.  My mother was an RN at Billings Hospital years ago.  I wanted to be just 20 like my mom. 21 
AJ: So you really did become your mom. 22 
GA: I did, I really did.  I was so proud of my mother having all these kids and had a profession and 23 then she was the model and danced and everything. 24 
AJ: An artist too. 25 
GA: Yes, and I was so . . . I say God blessed me with a good mother and a good father.  I wanted to 26 be just like my mom.  So I went to school for nursing.  I wanted to be a doctor but later on in life 27 I decided, Ohh, thats too long.  I couldnt go through that, which I should have today. 28 
AJ: Well, you think about it though . . . it was really hard for Black women to become doctors, for 29 any kind of person  period.   30 
GA: And being a transgender woman and being a doctor, I probably wouldnt have made it far. 31 
AJ: Well you made it to RN, which in my opinion is just as important as any doctor. 32 
GA: Yes, its good.  It is, it really is.  And I loved my craft. 33 
AJ: And you did it for 32 years. 1 
GA: 32 years.  I loved it. 2 
AJ: Thats incredible.  Thank you for helping people heal. 3 
GA: Yeah, Ive always wanted to be that way.  I always wanted to be a doctor or a nurse and I 4 remember the time, as a kid, sitting at the table and my mother and father and I had not that 5 many brothers and sisters then, I had a few of them . . . 6 
AJ: But not all 13 yet. 7 
GA: And then I had a brother named Herb and so we were sitting down and my mother asked us, 8 What do you want to be?  They went around asking and then they got to me and I said, Well, 9 I want to be a nurse.  Ohh, my brother, Herbert, just fell out laughing.  Nurses are women.  I 10 looked at him and I said, Well, Im a woman but I still want to be a nurse whether you think it 11 or not.  I laughed about it, but I became that.  My brother, today he really loves the idea that I 12 stuck with that idea and I brought it into view. 13 
AJ: Im on your brothers team. I deeply admire people who say, at a very early age, I want to do 14 this, and then they proceed to do what they wanted to do.   15 
GA: And I did it.  You know, growing up my mother and father . . . Ill put it this way.  My mother was 16 educated but my father wasnt.  My father was a worker, a steel mill worker.  He worked hard. 17 
AJ: Well back then people made really good money in those steel mills. 18 
GA: He made good money and he was a good dad, but I didnt have the closeness to my father the 19 way I should have had.  I was more geared to my mother, my mother and my grandmothers.  20 The women played a major role in my life. 21 
AJ: Is that right? 22 
GA: And being with all these beautiful women, I learned a lot.  I learned compassion and I learned 23 how to love and to care about people.  I would sit and read and talk with them and learned how 24 to cook.  So it was really amazing.  I didnt do boy things, I never did boy things, I never knew 25 how to play baseball. 26 
AJ: You never played sports? 27 
GA: No sports, I wasnt sports orientated at all.  So no, no  not for me.  But when it came to cooking 28 and cleaning and sewing, I did all that. 29 
AJ: Oh my goodness. 30 
GA: Yeah, I did all that. 31 
AJ: I bet youre an amazing cook. 32 
GA: Yes, I am.  I have to say so myself, I am.   33 
AJ: Whats your favorite dish? 34 
GA: My favorite dish is . . . Im like a Creole cooking red beans and rice.  Gumbo, I can cook a pot of 1 gumbo that you will kick over that table when you taste my gumbo. 2 
AJ: I love gumbo. 3 
GA: Oh, I do too.  So I learned that through my fathers side of the family because my father was an 4 amazing cook.  My mother had the babies but my father did all the cooking, besides other 5 things. 6 
AJ: Yeah, he was doing quite a few things with 13 babies. 7 
GA: He was, yes he was. 8 
AJ: Oh my goodness.  So you grew up in this really,really big family, you were the oldest. 9 
GA: Yes, the oldest. 10 
AJ: An artistic family, an educated family. 11 
GA: Yes. 12 
AJ: Where did you grow up? 13 
GA: I grew up in . . . well, I was born and raised in Bowling Green, Kentucky. 14 
AJ: Bowling Green. OK. 15 
GA: We didnt stay there long, I remember being in my grandmother and grandfathers house, they 16 had a huge house and we were all in this house.  There was so much love there between my 17 grandparents and my mother.  Then we had to . . . my fathers job was here in Chicago and we 18 had to move to Chicago.  We moved to Chicago and coming to Chicago, it was really cool back 19 then when I was coming here.  We lived in Hyde Park. 20 
AJ: Oh wow, so you grew up in Hyde Park? 21 
GA: Yes, and Hyde Park was really nice.   22 
AJ: Still is.  Thats where our President and the First Lady are from. 23 
GA: Right, Obama  right.  And then from there we moved to the Englewood area.  That was the 24 worst thing in my life, to go into . . . I hate to say this, an all-Black community, and it was rough. 25 
AJ: The ghetto in Chicago, lets just call it what it was. 26 
GA: Right, it was rough.  I went to Englewood High School.  But it wasnt bad when I was going.   27 
AJ: I went to high school right down the street at Lindblom High School. 28 
GA: Oh, well you went to the smart girls school.  I wish I could have went to Lindblom. 29 
AJ: It was right on the same block but just two or three blocks away from each other. 30 
GA: Right.  But Englewood had a lot of famous people to come out of Englewood. 31 
AJ: Yes, absolutely. 32 
GA: Lorraine Hansberry, she did Raison in the Sun and she was famous from Englewood.  Oscar 1 Brown, Jr., famous singer and everything.   2 
AJ: Actor too. 3 
GA: So I as there. 4 
AJ: Ms. Jennifer Hudson is from Englewood. 5 
GA: Right.  And me, the entertainment bug hit me for a while.  I sung with a band and traveled to 6 New York back and forth singing in nightclubs after I got out of high school. 7 
AJ: As a female? 8 
GA: Yeah, yeah.  And I was the answer. 9 
AJ: You were the answer. 10 
GA: Yes I was.  My voice was like . . . I emulated myself after Nancy Wilson.  Nancy Wilson was . . . 11 
AJ: The classiest vocalist . . . 12 
GA: Right, she was one of my role models. 13 
AJ: One of the classiest because I cant hit on Lena Horne or Sarah Vaughan.   14 
GA: Right, all of them  the great voices. 15 
AJ: But Nancy is beautiful. 16 
GA: Nancy was beautiful.  She was the . . . I call her the cream of the crme.  She was superb.  I 17 would sit . . . because my mother played music all the time and my mother would, when she was 18 dancing, she would see Nancy Wilson and Flip Wilson.  And my mother would always tell me 19 about this young girl, Nancy Wilson.  I got a chance to see her perform. 20 
AJ: Did you really? 21 
GA: Yes, and she performed at the Sutherland Hotel, which was a big nightclub with a hotel on the 22 south side of Chicago, 47th and South Park  somewhere over that way. 23 
AJ: Right in there near Michigan Avenue . . . 24 
GA: Right off of Cottage Grove.  She was so amazing and I wanted to be Nancy Wilson.  So I did my 25 singing and a lot of people would hear me and they were just shocked that I could sing.  I did a 26 lot of talent shows at Englewood High School and they loved my singing so I said, OK, Im going 27 to get into that.  So I went to New York and auditioned, I did a lot of auditioning and when I got 28 there, Im thinking Im going to take New York by storm and I got there, Ronnie Dyson was there 29 and Melba Moore.  Oh my God, them two . . . they were perfect when it came to their craft.  I 30 got out there thinking Im going to be right up there with them and they showed me up.  And so 31 that discouraged me, I said, Well, I cant sing like them, but Ill try.  But I did little nightclubs 32 and everything up in Harlem.  I had a great time, I really had a great time. 33 
AJ: So you had a professional career. 34 
GA: Yes, for just a minute. 1 
AJ: For a brief moment. 2 
GA: A minute.   3 
AJ: Well that would have taken you from your committed goal of being a nurse. 4 
GA: Right, right.  It did. 5 
AJ: But you had to try things. 6 
GA: I had to try stuff.  And thats the way I was.  And church, I went to Greater Metropolitan, which 7 was on 58th and Wabash, and that church was the most gifted church  for me, because 8 everybody knew my truth and they didnt ignore me or shun me off. 9 
AJ: Thats big  for people who dont know, thats one of the biggest churches in Chicago.  Its a 10 beautiful church right on Wabash.   11 
GA: And I have to say the minister at that time was Reverend Ward and Reverend Ward was one of 12 these ministers, he preached and oh my God could he sing.  He had a wife named Grace, Grace 13 Ward.  And Grace Ward was another singer, gospel singer, and she was really good too.  He 14 would always ask me when they had a program, he said, My child is coming up to sing for me.  15 I was his child, so Id get up there and sing my heart out.  I just knew I was going to end up being 16 a gospel singer.  So during this time, Mahalia Jackson would come to our church all the time.  17 And she heard . . . 18 
AJ: The greatest gospel singer ever. 19 
GA: In the world, right.  And she heard me sing and she was floored by my singing. 20 
AJ: What? 21 
GA: And asked me, she said, You come into my house because I want you to join my youth group. 22 And I did.  I just knew . . . 23 
AJ: Really?  Mama Gloria, are you kidding me? 24 
GA: Yes, Im telling the truth.  Mahalia Jackson and I looked up to her to no end.  Her voice was so 25 unique and beautiful.   26 
AJ: She was Dr. Kings personal favorite singer. 27 
GA: Right.  And she was my personal favorite singer.  I sang with her youth group for a couple of 28 years and during that time, Jessy Dixon, another gospel singer, he took me under his wing too.  29 So I was traveling back and forth to different churches singing.  I learned a lot, but I was still 30 myself  everybody knew I was this girly, prissy thing.  I wouldnt hide it.  I wasnt discriminated 31 by the church  not by my church.  A lot of people loved me because I was me, I didnt try to 32 cover up or hide.   33 
AJ: Right.  And you can say if this is true or not, that the more authentic and honest you are with 34 yourself, the more people tend to respect you. 35 
GA: They do, they really do.  My mother and grandmother always instilled this in me  they said if 1 youre going to be ashamed of what you are, then dont do it.  And I listened to that.  Im not 2 ashamed of nothing.  I got out there, I did it, and I would come home and just do little girly 3 things and twist around the house and everything.  But they didnt tell me, Oh, you have to 4 stop, you cant do that.  They didnt do that.  They let me be me. 5 
AJ: How was the kids in the neighborhood? 6 
GA: The kids in the neighborhood, there were some that liked me and there was some that didnt.  7 As I got older, I had more kids in the neighborhood and their families to like me.  It was a village, 8 they raised us  if they saw me doing something wrong, they would tell my mother or my 9 grandmother, my father.  And I would get punished for it, but they watched me and Im so glad 10 today that I had them type of people in my life.   11 
AJ: Wow, yeah.  Thats part of the problem for some of the young people in our community today is 12 that they dont have that village around them to help push them back on track.  We all run to 13 the right, to the left . . . 14 
GA: Right, we run amok. 15 
AJ: But we got to get pushed back on the path. 16 
GA: Get pushed back on the path, right.  I look at a lot of them that have gotten off the path and 17 they were doing bad things and you never know.  I didnt discriminate against them or talk 18 about them because it could have been me.  So you never know what God has in store for you 19 or what life has in store for you. 20 
AJ: So, I think I know the answer to this question but Im going to ask it anyway.  When was the first 21 time you realized that you were not the gender you were assigned at birth? 22 
GA: Well, thats a hard thing to say because I always knew I was a girl, but I knew I was in a boys 23 body but I was a girl.  When I realized that something was different about me, because it was 24 the way I was being treated by some people.  Grown people, during that time I was a kid, could 25 be cruel and mean and they were  they were mean to me.  Because at the age . . . when I came 26 to Chicago, at the age of . . . I had to be about four or five years old, somewhere along that line, 27 and my mother and father worked.  We had a lady that we would go and stay with her until my 28 parents got home from work and they had a 17-year-old, this lady had a 17-year-old son named 29 Frank, I remember him just like it was today.  And Frank was 17 and I think I was four or five, and 30 Frank, I guess he knew there was something different about me and he was messing with me.  31 He was doing things that I couldnt believe that somebody of that age would do to a kid.  He did 32 things to me and I knew it was ugly and I didnt like it, but I kept it quiet.  I didnt tell nobody 33 until I got to the age of 13 and then when I mentioned it to my mother and father what was 34 going on they were angry with me because they said, How come you didnt come and tell us?  35 And I told them, Whos going to believe a four or a five year old?  I didnt know what he was 36 doing to me, but it happened.  It did put a dent in my life, I was scared  scared of boys, scared 37 of men.  Thats when I knew, as I got older, that it was something about me that attracted these 38 men to me, they figured when you are different, or feminine, people will take advantage of you 39 if nobody else is around and thats what happened to me.  After that I didnt like older men.  In 40 fact, I didnt like men period because I was afraid of them  they were putting their hands on 1 me.  I went into a shell but I still knew I was a girl, but I wasnt going to let them change me or 2 scare me from who I was supposed to be. 3 
AJ: Wow.  Wow.  Thank you for sharing that.  Yeah.  I think abuse, in so many forms, is a really 4 present thing in our communities. 5 
GA: Its always been there but its more so open and people are aware of it now.  6 
AJ: And talking more about it. 7 
GA: More about it, but back then when I was coming up they didnt talk about it.  Everything was . . . 8 
AJ: Secret. 9 
GA: You dont say nothing about that, you dont tell nobody.  It was pushed under the rug and you 10 were supposed to forget about it.  But I didnt forget about none of those things that happened 11 to me because I went through an ugly stage in my life that grown people were taking advantage 12 of people like me and hurting us and during that time, as I got a little bit older  around eight or 13 nine years old, they were raping and killing kids during that time.  I remember lots of things 14 about that because they were finding young boys and young girls murdered in a gangway or an 15 alley, in viaducts.  I almost became a statistic like that because I was out late going to the candy 16 store in a little skull cap and a little trench coat and my shorts on.   17 
AJ: Oh wow. 18 
GA: It was a big pole, I remember that.  I saw something peeking up from the pole and when I came 19 out of the candy store, something told me, Dont go past the pole, just try to get around it.  20 And as I was trying to get around it, this black shadow jumped out after me, and it was a man, 21 and if that man had a caught me, I probably would have been dead.  I probably would have been 22 dead. 23 
AJ: Oh wow. 24 
GA: But I ran home and told my mother and father about it.  Mother and father got up off their 25 couch or seat and went back, took me back, to see and I pointed where that happened.  They 26 were like that, they were always protective of me.   27 
AJ: Wow, thats beautiful to have a supportive family.  Did you ever confront Fred . . . Frank?  What 28 was his name? 29 
GA: Frank was his name.  No, I didnt.  I was so happy that my mother and father moved out of that 30 building and we got away from them.  But it was always in my mind what he had done to me. 31 
AJ: Absolutely.  Well, I mean I think that speaks to the resilience of trans women of color. 32 
GA: Yes. 33 
AJ: Just sheer determination to be who we are and to live our truth. 34 
GA: To live our truth.  And as I got older, being a transgender . . . I didnt know what that meant at 1 the time because . . . 2 
AJ: Yeah, that word didnt even exist. 3 
GA: It didnt exist.  They would call us sissies and so I was a sissy, that was the term they used. 4 
AJ: I remember that. 5 
GA: And I didnt like it.  Oh, theyd point fingers, Theres goes that sissy.  And Im just angry about 6 it.  So when I got out of high school, because in high school I had lots of friends but they were 7 girls, females.  So I was with the female group.  The guys . . . some guys were nice to me and 8 some werent.  In high school, when I got out of high school, I started going out.  I was going to 9 Southeastern Junior College, I remember that.   10 
AJ: OK, yeah. 11 
GA: You know, college  OK, I get a chance to go out and hang around.  It was this place called The 12 Parkside on 51st Street, right off of Cottage Grove.  This was the watering hole for sissies.  I 13 would go get off the bus coming from school at 51st Street, because we lived . . . we lived 14 where?  In the Hyde Park area but I was more or less going west.   15 
AJ: West, OK. 16 
GA: So on Fridays when I would get out of school, this club called The Parkside Lounge was a 17 booming club.  I would see these guys out there, all these guys and I was just thrilled to see this.  18 I would see guys in high heels and earrings and theyd be out there just . . .  19 
AJ: Sashaying. 20 
GA: Right. 21 
AJ: Twirling as the children would say today. 22 
GA: Yeah.  And it was men going into these clubs and partying with these people and Im saying to 23 myself, OK.  So I started hanging out outside because I wasnt old enough to get into the club.  24 And the guys would come out and talk and everything.  So then that opened doors for me 25 because I said these are the people I should . . .  26 
AJ: These are my people. 27 
GA: And they were.  I got to know them and when I got of age to go in the club I did.  It was a place 28 where they would hold hands and kiss and do things, have fun.  But when they left the club, 29 they were straight men trying to . . .  30 
AJ: Fit in. 31 
GA: Yes, fit in with society.  So that opened the doors for me.  I said well, this is where Im going to 32 hang out  and I did, I did.  I met so many wonderful people and it was a group of people that I 33 got involved with that were much older than me and they were professional people  social 34 workers, school teachers, lawyers, doctors.  Im not going to mention names because they might 35 have some people out here today, but it was a doctor that I met and he was a professor at 1 Chicago State University  well known, married and had kids.  And we became friends, special 2 friends. 3 
AJ: Special friends, OK. 4 
GA: And I learned a lot from these people because they taught me how to survive, how to carry 5 myself in such a manner that people would be proud of me.  And I loved them because they 6 were the type of people, they stuck with each other and we cared about each other.  When I 7 was just going to school, I wasnt working or anything.  I would go and have lunch and sit down 8 and talk with them and everything.  And then they had other kids that would come from 9 everywhere that were put out of their homes.  We helped them.  We learned how to help one 10 another, which today  they dont do that.  They have cliques, we didnt have cliques back then, 11 but theyve got cliques today.  If youre not pretty in certain groups, they dont want to be 12 bothered with you.  If youre educated in one group, they dont want to be bothered with lower 13 class people.  Which I hate that theyre doing that today. 14 
AJ: I know. 15 
GA: We are all in this community and we need to stick and help each other, but they dont do it  16 they dont do it.  But I do admire the educated trans girls, such as yourself. 17 
AJ: Thank you. 18 
GA: I mean that are out here doing things  opening doors and letting people know were smart, 19 were brilliant, and were here. 20 
AJ: Wow  wow.  I love that so much, Gloria.  You answer this question however you want to, Im 21 going to put it out there because I love you and I know what this journey is about, having been 22 out 25 years myself.  Have you had any medical interventions in your transition to becoming a 23 woman?  To the extent that you feel comfortable talking about it. 24 
GA: I remember in 1967 I met a guy that lived in Wisconsin and he would come to the city and Id go 25 out with him and everything.  This guy presented me with this issue about he wanted to . . . for 26 me to be his woman.   27 
AJ: All right. 28 
GA: He wanted me to have surgery and I didnt know anything about surgery because I didnt 29 investigate it.  I heard a little bit, but not much. 30 
AJ: Well, and it wasnt that popular. 31 
GA: No, it wasnt.  So I went home and I told my sister about it, I didnt tell nobody else  I told her 32 about it.  And she told me if I did that she would stop speaking to me.  I love my sister that much 33 and I said, Oh, I dont want her to stop speaking to me, so I never did think about it no more 34 after that.  Then when I broke away from her, I was out there and then the thought started 35 coming into my mind.  I am a girl, so why not have the surgery and get it done and Im official.  36 So I had one girlfriend named Julia, Ms. Julia, she had the surgery.  She did it and she loved it 37 and she showed it to me, and I said, Oh my gosh.   38 
AJ: Right. 1 
GA: And Im thinking about the pain you have to go through to do it.  So in 1977, at the county 2 hospital, I did it.  I had the surgery. 3 
AJ: At Cook County Hospital. 4 
GA: At Cook County, they was doing it but it was done in a way that nobody knew about it.  You had 5 to go through so many . . . and they were doing it on the green card. 6 
AJ: I was born in Cook County Hospital and I had a green card all my childhood. 7 
GA: Yes.  Well they were doing it on green card. 8 
AJ: Which is like medical . . . like Medicaid or Medical Assistance. 9 
GA: Right, right.  So I did it.  I didnt do it because I wanted to get a man, I did it for myself to be 10 completed. 11 
AJ: To confirm your identity, right? 12 
GA: Right.  And it was painful.  I thought I was going to die and it wasnt as modern as it is today 13 because back then it was done but nerve endings and all that, they didnt do none of that.  They 14 werent advanced like they . . . or if they were they werent telling us about it. 15 
AJ: Right, exactly. 16 
GA: So, I did it.  It was OK. 17 
AJ: In 1977. 18 
GA: Yes, it was OK.  I thought it would really change my life but it made it just a little bit better, but 19 not that much.  A lot of guys I was going out with and . . . today its really . . . they dont want 20 you to do a lot of guys.  I did it and I wish I didnt do it. 21 
AJ: Really? 22 
GA: Right, I wish I didnt do it.  I wish I could have waited until later on in life when they got more 23 advanced with it.  People, when I tell them that they hate to hear it, but we werent having 24 orgasms and everything, it was just cut out.  25 
AJ: And nothing re-attached or . . .  26 
GA: Oh no, your money was not well spent, Ill put it that way.  But now today, oh you get the nerve 27 endings and . . .  28 
AJ: Orgasms and lubrication. 29 
GA: Right.  And so I did that and I went through a traumatic experience because I wanted a husband 30 and I had a boyfriend named Maurice, hes not here today.  I wish I hadnt done it back then.  I 31 wish I could have waited until now to do it but Im too old now to think about that. 32 
AJ: Why do you say that? 33 
GA: Well because . . . I dont know.  Because I think ohhh, OK.  But I would enjoy the feelings, you 1 know.  But back then I wish I hadnt done it.  It wasnt fulfillment to me.  So I lost out.  Im glad 2 its over with, Ive done it and its OK. 3 
AJ: And you are who you are. 4 
GA: It made me more aware of who I am now.  But I lost a lot of boyfriends when I found . . . when 5 they found out what was down there.  They said, Ohhh, OK.  And then I had one boyfriend tell 6 me, Raymond was his name  I wont mention any last names, he told me, he said, If I wanted a 7 woman I would have married a woman.  And that hurt me.  So I said, Oh my God. 8 
AJ: Yes, I am a woman. 9 
GA: Thats what I thought.  I said OK.  But I lost him.  And today . . . Im a cougar.  I like younger men 10 and I feel good with younger men. 11 
AJ: Yes  yes, yes. 12 
GA: So Im happy about that.  Im having fun.  I do my thing and Ive had some good boyfriends, 13 some real good boyfriends.   14 
AJ: So you mentioned to me the other day that you might be tying the knot.   15 
GA: Yes, yes.  His name is LeRoy, he lives in Savannah. 16 
AJ: Savannah, Georgia. 17 
GA: Yes.  And hes a country boy, southern hospitality. 18 
AJ: Southern gentlemen. 19 
GA: Yeah, he knows how to treat a lady.  Hes younger. 20 
AJ: How old is he? 21 
GA: Hes 50.  Hes 50 and Im 70. 22 
AJ: You are a cougar, Mama. 23 
GA: Yes I am and I love him.  I love him.  He is so nice and weve been dating . . . I met him online. 24 
AJ: Look at you. 25 
GA: Right.  And dont believe the hype that you have to be . . . you do have to be leery of who you 26 meet online because theres a lot of predators on there too. 27 
AJ: Yes. 28 
GA: But hes nice, he turned out to be nice.  Hes sweet.  Yeah, Im going to do it before I kick the 29 bucket  to say I did it. 30 
AJ: So youre going to get married. 31 
GA: Yes, Im going to get married and I hope . . . lets see, I hope by December or January, because 1 Im writing a book and when my book is out, I plan to be married. 2 
AJ: Wow.  Whats the title of your book? 3 
GA: I havent gotten a title yet.  Im thinking about one because I was getting ready to say the . . . 4 one title that sticks in my head is The Killing of Sister George and George was my boys name.    5 
AJ: The Killing of Sister George.  That could be a powerful title, Mama.   6 
GA: Yes.  And Im thinking about that because I did kill George.  And George was a part of my life 7 that I didnt like and when Gloria came out . . . 8 
AJ: You gave birth to Gloria.   9 
GA: Yes, I got rid of George . . . George has gone somewhere.  I dont know where hes at but hes 10 gone.  I was thinking about that, The Killing of Sister George.   11 
AJ: Tell me about how the name Gloria came to be.   12 
GA: OK.  George is my boys name at that time and I had a sister named Lori . . . L-o-r-i.  And I said to 13 myself, I said, OK, G-l-o-r-i-a.  And I came up with that name.  Because I love my sisters name, 14 Lori, and then I said, Gloria.  So thats how I came up with it. 15 
AJ: Thats beautiful. 16 
GA: I wanted a name . . . I didnt want to get with another name, because I wanted my name to be 17 close with the initial G.   18 
AJ: Wow, I love that.  Thats powerful.  So, youre getting married, youre writing a book.  When this 19 marriage happens Im assuming youre going to relocate to Savannah. 20 
GA: Savannah, Georgia  yeah.  Im going back south and I want to do this because this guy makes 21 me happy and I want to get married one time, just like I said, before I leave this earth  to say 22 that I did everything that I set out to do, I did it.  I want to be happy and I think that will really 23 make me happy.  Everybody needs somebody in their life and I want this special man.  Ive had 24 quite a few men and they turn out to be complete jerks, but this one . . . hes an older guy, 50.  25 Because usually I dont go over 50 years, they were down there . . . 20, 30, and 40.  And, thats 26 my goal and Im going to get there. 27 
AJ: Youre going to make it happen. 28 
GA: Im going to get there. 29 
AJ: I love you for that, Mama Gloria. 30 
GA: And then, about Charm School.  I was going to the Center on Halsted about five years ago and I 31 would sit there and go to the senior luncheons there which they have called SAGE.  I was a part 32 of SAGE.  Wed sit there and have lunch and senior voices and all that stuff with a bunch of old 33 queers and queens.  But I enjoyed sitting there because I learned a lot from them. 34 
AJ: Do they still be dissing and giving the dirt up on everybody? 35 
GA: Yes, right.  But when you get to be an old queen its even worse. 1 
AJ: Its even worse  oh-oh. 2 
GA: Because were finger popping and reading each other and we go through our mood changes.  A 3 lot of people dont realize this, that men and transgender, we go through hormonal changes.  4 Sitting there with a bunch of queens, old queens and old trans men and everything, all these 5 hormones are hitting each other and I sit there and I laugh and I learned a lot from them.  We go 6 through the change of life, Im going through it now.  I sit there and after we have our little 7 group sessions and everything, I would go down to the main floor, the lobby in the Center on 8 Halsted, and these young kids  femme boy queens and sissies or whatever you want to call 9 them, they would come through there scantily dressed and shaking and shimmying everything.  10 Im sitting there looking at them and saying, Oh my God.  People are coming in there with 11 their children  little children, and these girls are out there shaking and almost giving you table 12 top dances.  I saw this and I said, Uh-uh, you all cant do that.  Children, when theyre coming 13 up, theyre impressionable.  They see this and they think, Oh, this is what I want to do  get up 14 and shake and finger pop.  So I told the girls about it and I told them, You know, during the 15 day time you dont wear hookers outfit during the day.  What you do at night is done in the 16 dark so you dont know . . . youve got an excuse, its OK  I can do this.  So, I sit there and I got 17 on them about it and a lot of the girls they paid attention to me.  And then all of a sudden a bell 18 rang in my head  ding!  You ought to start a Charm School.  And I said, OK.  So I brought it 19 to the attention of the Center on Halsted.  I went to the CEO and told him about it and it was 20 one lady in particular, Ms. Joy, she was there at the time.  She was in my corner with it and we 21 did it.  It took a little while for it to start up but it did come through.  And during that time, I had 22 groups coming in and would sit with them and doing things.  We were having such a great time 23  still have such a great time when Im doing it, but Im not doing it as much because Im too old.  24 My patience is short. 25 
AJ: Its short. 26 
GA: But they let me do it and it went over well.  During that time I remember Precious Davis came to 27 the Center, that was the first time . . . because they brought her in and she was cute but she 28 didnt know who she wanted to be at that time, because she was still wearing boys clothes but 29 she was androgynous  you didnt know if it was a man or you didnt know if it was a woman.  30 She brought so much energy into the program and we connected and I told her shes my child, 31 and today Im so proud of her.  But the Charm School, I was so proud of that too.  I did so many 32 things for that group. 33 
AJ: So she came through Charm School? 34 
GA: Yeah, she was working there. 35 
AJ: She was working at the Center but you were mentoring her, you were grooming her. 36 
GA: Right, and we met and she was supposed to come in and work with me.  She said, Well, I 37 believe you can do it all by yourself.  And she had faith in me and I did it by myself because we 38 had other people to come in.  Im going to mention one, but Im not going to say her name, that 39 came in and she wasnt Charm School material.  She wasnt the type of girl that you wanted to 40 be around.  She wasnt . . . she was OK, but she wasnt . . . and she had an attitude.  She thought 1 she was going to come in and take over and Im like this, you know.  Im not going to do 2 anything to get along with you, this was my baby, my project that I wanted to do and youre not 3 going to come in and move me out. 4 
AJ: And take me out. 5 
GA: And I let her know that.  So she dropped it, she saw that I wasnt going to stand back and let her 6 . . . and so she left and when Precious came in Precious was totally differently.  I knew Precious 7 was the lady, the young girl that I admired.  And Charm School went on from there and Precious, 8 she gave me a lot of help and support.   9 
AJ: So she helped you as well? 10 
GA: Yes she did, yes she did.  Just like I said, I look at her today and I am so amazed by her and Im so 11 amazed by the other girls  you, yourself, and so many. 12 
AJ: Every time I look up Precious is at the White House or shes marrying this beautiful transgender 13 man. 14 
GA: Yes. 15 
AJ: They call him the Trans Obama.   16 
GA: Yeah.  And its amazing.  I cant wait.  To be surrounded by all these beautiful people, and Im 17 going to put it like this . . . Im the stem and then all these beautiful flowers come out around 18 the stem, around me  but Im the stem. 19 
AJ: Oh, that is so beautiful. Im just thrilled to be one of those flowers. 20 
GA: Yes you are.  And I thank God for letting me live this long, to witness this.  It is a tribute and an 21 honor to have you wonderful, young people that are making moves and waves.  Because when I 22 was coming up, we didnt make moves and waves like that.  But I had older people that taught 23 me, but if they were living today, they would be proud too. 24 
AJ: Thats why youre here.  You inspired this amazing play. 25 
GA: Yes. 26 
AJ: Called Charm. 27 
GA: Charm, right.   28 
AJ: Its about the work of . . .  29 
GA: Gloria Allen, yeah. 30 
AJ: How does that feel to be the impetus for a stage play that has opened last night to an amazing 31 opening night crowd? 32 
GA: Yes.  And today Im still . . . it feels like its a reality that has come true for me.  I sit back . . . I 1 cant believe that I did this and people are still amazed by it.  Sometimes I have to sit down and 2 take a straight pin and stick it in me to see if Im alive.   3 
AJ: Oh my goodness, yes.   4 
GA: And Philip Dawkins, who wrote the play, I was so thrilled by him coming into my class and 5 watching me interact with these young people.  BJ, which was the producer of it, he saw an 6 article in the newspaper . . . 7 
AJ: Right, because there was so much media attention around this project that you were doing. 8 
GA: Yeah, media attention about that and Im saying to myself, Who are all these people coming to 9 me and asking me about this and that.  Im telling them, This is what I wanted to do, this is my 10 baby and Im going to see it grow up.  And it did  it did.  Because the Tribune in Chicago, they 11 did the articles, Ive talked to WBEC, which there is a girl there . . . I forgot her name, but I went 12 to school with her mother.  Goodwin, her last name is Goodwin  her mothers name was 13 Yvonne and her mother was a girlfriend of mine in high school that . . . we had our groups and 14 she was there with me all the time. 15 
AJ: Supporting you. 16 
GA: Yes.  She wasnt nasty toward me and Yvonne was so beautiful and so kind to me, all the girls in 17 high school were kind to me.  I have to say that.  All those girls that are out there and up there, I 18 thank them because they were there.  And they still recognize me.  I have a girlfriend now that 19 lives in Chicago, her name is Dottie and Dottie, from grammar school throughout . . . up until 20 today, were the best of friends. 21 
AJ: Is that right?   22 
GA: Yes, the best of friends.  I call her, she calls me, we keep in touch with each other.  I used to go 23 to her house as a sissy boy and her family  they didnt lock the door or hide her.  They let me 24 come in the house and Id sit with them and talk.  Were still friends today.  Thats amazing 25 when you can sit with a bunch of people that knew you in yester days and the years have gone 26 on and were still the best of friends. 27 
AJ: I know, not a lot of transgender-identified people can say that. 28 
GA: Could say that, right.   29 
AJ: Because our friends leave us, sometimes our families leave us.   30 
GA: Right, they do.  As they say, God  he makes no mistakes.  By him having transgender people in 31 the world, God didnt make a mistake  he knew what he was doing when he put us down here. 32 And I think him. 33 
AJ: So are you still involved with the church? 34 
GA: Yes I am.  Every now and then I go to the church and I speak to a group of people at the church 35 and they listen.  When I go there its just like . . . they give me Hollywood treatment.  36 
AJ: Oh really? 1 
GA: They really do  and I love that.  I love that. 2 
AJ: You deserve Hollywood treatment, you are a superstar in my eyes. 3 
GA: They give me that.  And to have the church behind you is a big thing. 4 
AJ: Absolutely. 5 
GA: Theres a lot of churches out here that are against homosexual and gay people.   6 
AJ: And trans people. 7 
GA: Right.  And I think trans people, just like you said.  Because trans people, were the most hated 8 group in any society.  They will throw us under the bus and run the bus over two and three 9 times.   10 
AJ: And thats not a euphemism, thats a reality.  Some person . . . just three weeks ago a trans 11 person got ran over by a car and they ran him, it was a trans man, two or three times. 12 
GA: Right.  Thats what Im talking about.  People fail to realize that we are all Gods children no 13 matter what.  He made us and if you dont like us then you really dont like the Lord, you dont 14 like his work. 15 
AJ: Were just another representation of what it means to be human. 16 
GA: Yes. 17 
AJ: Of Gods creation. 18 
GA: Of Gods creation, and that is so true.  I tell everybody  I say, judgment day  whenever that 19 day comes, judgment day, I believe, is the day you die anyway and when you go before the Lord 20 youve got to answer for your mistakes.  If you hate a transgender person somewhere down the 21 line, you didnt like Gods work and youre going to be punished for it.  They dont believe that.  22 Now suppose you go up in heaven and we meet the creator and he or she turns out to be a 23 transgender person.   24 
AJ: Right. 25 
GA: Then, hey  you messed up.   26 
AJ: You really messed up  oh my goodness.  What was your experience like working with the 27 Center on Halsted? 28 
GA: My experience there, it was good but it was confusing at times because some of the staff 29 members that were there, they claimed they were in our corners but a lot of them werent.  A 30 lot of them that would come through to work there, they came through there to get status and 31 then leave.  Theyd go someplace else.  I think thats sort of bad to be that way.  I could name a 32 few people and get egg thrown in my face, but they did  they would come through there and 33 theyd work maybe six months to a year, they moved on somewhere.  Theyre not there to help 34 the community, theyre there to help themselves.  Yup.  And Im still dedicated to the Center on 1 Halsted.  Theyre not fair enough, but Im still dedicated. 2 
AJ: Youre still dedicated  because youre making them become a little more fair every day. 3 
GA: Every day.  Yes, its a tedious job but it has to be done.   4 
AJ: Right.  I admire that.  What do you think the relationship is between the transgender community 5 and the broader gay, lesbian, bi-sexual community? 6 
GA: Oh, Im glad you asked that and Im going to really get em.   7 
AJ: Im glad I asked you too. 8 
GA: Im glad you asked that.  The gay community is a divided community, it really is.  When I say this 9 theyll probably get mad.  But transgender group, were discriminated even by our own kind.  10 Gay men, they dont like transgender women or transgender men.  Its a big gap between us, 11 you know.  Ive listened to . . . Im doing some research now and Im listening to a lot.  Down-low 12 brothers, the ones that are married to women or theyve got girlfriends, but they sneak off with 13 a transgender girl, they dont like us.  They really dont like us.  And when they find out  you 14 know, Ive gone online and Ive talked to a lot of down-low brothers and the down-low brothers, 15 I dont like femmes.  Thats their term, femmes.  What are you talking about femmes?  Im 16 not a femme.  And they do that so loosely.  Im a transgender woman, either you accept me or 17 you dont.  A lot of the down-low brothers, theyre masculine  some of them look good, some 18 of them look like hell.  But, they consider themselves men but theyre after other men that are 19 like them  that looks like them, but theyre all doing the same thing we do.  Theyre getting . . . 20 just like we are.   21 
AJ: Exactly. 22 
GA: Its so sad that theyre like that.  And then you have the group of transgender girls that have 23 gone and had black market injections of silicone in their lips and in their faces and in their butts 24 and everything, and they all look alike to me.   25 
AJ: Thats true. 26 
GA: Im going to do a comparison.  They had a series on TV a long time ago called Wayland and 27 Madame.   28 
AJ: I dont think . . .  29 
GA: They had these dummies on there and Miss Jiffy.  Miss Jiffy was a black doll with silicone cheeks 30 and lips, she looked just like Pearl Bailey with a snatch pony tail and a white one, and they would 31 just be back and forth and everything. 32 
AJ: So they were little puppets. 33 
GA: Little puppets  yeah. 34 
AJ: I remember this show now, yes. 35 
GA: Thats what these girls look like to me.  They go to the same doctor and get the same silicone 1 shots in them and they all look alike.  You can smack a girl in the face and shes still going to be 2 smiling.  So Im saying to myself, Oh, youre in pain, and shes still smiling.  Its so sad that they 3 do that but theyre so divided. 4 
AJ: Its dangerous too. 5 
GA: Yes its dangerous.  And Ive told them about that, because that stuff shifts on you.  You might 6 have cheek bones for a couple of years and you get hit . . . 7 
AJ: And now youve got jaws. 8 
GA: Youve got jaws or a fat neck. 9 
AJ: Exactly. 10 
GA: Or your ankles are so swollen or so big from the injection in your hips.  And then, I look at them 11 and I said to myself, What are you doing to yourself.  These huge asses and these pencil legs.  12 How can those legs hold that ass up?  But its all from the injections and they think its pretty.  13 Its pretty for a while. 14 
AJ: For a little while. 15 
GA: For a while, then what that stuff . . . gravity falls and youre messed up.  But we are divided.  16 Then theyve got the trans boys out there, theyre doing their thing.  I might get some more egg 17 thrown in my face because the trans . . .  18 
AJ: Youve got to speak your truth, Mama. 19 
GA: Yes.  Trans boys are out there doing each other, the trans girls are doing each other, and Im 20 saying to myself, They are so confused, and this umbrella with all these acronyms  LBGTQP  21 whatever.  How can they know what they are? It used to be you were either gay or lesbian.  That 22 is completely out now. 23 
AJ: Yes, thats out. 24 
GA: And they never did put T in there at all, it was either just like I said  gay or lesbian.  Now they 25 got the gay, bi-sexual, now transsexual, queer.  Im not a queer.  I hate that term, Being a 26 queer.  Nobody is queer.  Maybe crazy, but not queer.   27 
AJ: I love that.  28 
GA: Yeah, and its so . . . cis gender, pan gender, theres so much out there and its confusing.  It 29 really is. 30 
AJ: It is  its a lot.  The world is changing. 31 
GA: Yes, it has changed tremendously. 32 
AJ: Speaking of which, one of the things that happened in the play . . . there was a scene where 33 there was a conversation about the world tranny. 34 
GA: Yes. 1 
AJ: What do you think about the word?  Whats the history of the word?  Do you think that . . . 2 because RuPaul go into a lot of trouble about saying tranny, tell me what you think about the 3 word. 4 
GA: I think tranny is a term thats used loosely.  Tranny . . . I think a tranny is just when youre 5 coming out, you are tranny.  And then as you get older you lose that title and you become a 6 transgender or a trans female or male. 7 
AJ: Or woman. 8 
GA: Or woman, yes.  But tranny is for . . . with a baby they say, Oh, let me put you on a training 9 bra.  A training bra helps you to firm and lift  so thats the way I look at it.  I guess I was a 10 tranny years ago but now Im a woman.  Dont call me a tranny, Im not a tranny anymore.  And, 11 its a term thats used loosely.  Its nothing wrong with it if you put it in steps, tranny  12 transgender, trans man or male or female.   13 
AJ: I like that.  What about Miss Caitlyn.  I guess she would be a tranny. 14 
GA: Shes a tranny.  15 
AJ: In your definition, shes a tranny.   16 
GA: Shes late coming out and shes out and she thinks shes an authority on everything and shes 17 not.  She cant tell me nothing.  I can tell her, but she cant tell me.  Ive experienced a lot but 18 shes getting the recognition because shes rich and shes white. 19 
AJ: You better speak  come on Mama Gloria. 20 
GA: Shes not pretty, the money makes her pretty. 21 
AJ: Right, exactly. 22 
GA: If I were to look at her in the yester years and she was coming out, I would say to myself, No, I 23 dont think I want to look like her or be like her.  But shes riding on the coattails of all the 24 transgender women that have been out there for years and shes getting recognition and these 25 girls that have been out there for years should have the recognition but they dont have it. 26 
AJ: Wow.  Mama Gloria, Im looking at my clock and Im so sad because its almost 10:30 and I know 27 youve got to catch this flight to get back to Chicago. 28 
GA: Right.  And Ive had such a wonderful time and believe me, if we can do it again, Im here. 29 
AJ: Well we will do it again.  Im coming to Chicago so we can sit down and do it again.  Is there 30 anything that I didnt ask you about that you want to tell me about  or you want people to 31 know about? 32 
GA: What I want people to know about?  That were all human beings and that it takes all kind of 33 people to make the world go around and people need to know that.  Nobody is going to be the 34 same, no matter what you think or how you think, because if everybody was born alike this 1 would be a boring-ass world. 2 
AJ: Right. 3 
GA: And they need to know that.  You need to know that its all kind of people to make up the world 4 and we need to know that and we need to embrace that and love that - we really do, because 5 we are all human beings and we bleed the same blood whether youre trans, gay, lesbian, bi-6 sexual.  And another thing I have to get on the bi-sexual men, they need to change their minds 7 and their thinking too.  They really do. 8 
AJ: Wow.  Well this has been an absolute joy and my honor and my pleasure to share the morning 9 with you. 10 
GA: Thank you. 11 
AJ: To spend time with you yesterday.  We had a lovely dinner and we went to see a beautiful play 12 and everybody just loved and praised you. It was such a beautiful moment. 13 
GA: And I have to tell you, you are such a good host and interviewer.  I love you, Im so proud of you.  14 You keep up doing the good work that youre doing because you are amazing. 15 
AJ: Were about to change the world around here, Mama Gloria.   16 
GA: Yes indeed. 17 
AJ: Good-bye, until we meet again. 18 
GA: OK  fun, fun. 19 

