   
Andrea Anderson Narrator   Andrea Jenkins Interviewer 
    
The Transgender Oral History Project Tretter Collection in GLBT Studies University of Minnesota 
March 2, 2017 
 
 
   

 
  
The Transgender Oral History Project of the Upper Midwest will empower individuals to tell their story, while providing students, historians, and the public with a more rich foundation of primary source material about the transgender community.  The project is part of the Tretter Collection at the University of Minnesota.  The archive provides a record of GLBT thought, knowledge and culture for current and future generations and is available to students, researchers and members of the public. 
The Transgender Oral History Project will collect up to 400 hours of oral histories involving 200 to 300 individuals over the next three years.  Major efforts will be the recruitment of individuals of all ages and experiences, and documenting the work of The Program in Human Sexuality.  This project will be led by Andrea Jenkins, poet, writer, and trans-activist.  Andrea brings years of experience working in government, non-profits and LGBT organizations.  If you are interested in being involved in this exciting project, please contact Andrea. 
Andrea Jenkins jenki120@umn.edu (612) 625-4379 
   
 
Andrea Jenkins -AJ 1 
Andrea Anderson  -AA 2 
 3 
 4 
AJ: So, hello. 5 
AA: Hello. 6 
AJ: My name is Andrea Jenkins and I am the oral historian for the Transgender Oral History Project 7 at the University of Minnesota.  Today is March 2, 2017.  I am in south Minneapolis and I am 8 here today with Andrea Anderson.  Do you want me to say Hernandez or do you use that name 9 anymore? 10 
AA: Not necessarily.  I think Andrea Anderson is just easier. 11 
AJ: So, Im here with Andrea Anderson.  How are you today? 12 
AA: Very good, thank you.  Very, very, very excited. 13 
AJ: Yay!  So am I, Im really excited.  When I first met you, I told you I really wanted you to be a part 14 of this project and I think that was over a year ago. 15 
AA: Definitely.   16 
AJ: Now were here. 17 
AA: Were here. 18 
AJ: So, Ive got a few early questions.  So, Andrea, state your name, spell your name so we make 19 sure we get it right. 20 
AA: Absolutely. 21 
AJ: And then tell me what your gender identity is right now  like how you identify as a person in 22 the world, what was your gender assigned at birth, and what pronouns do you use. 23 
AA: Right, definitely.  Well, I was born as a little boy and then like RuPaul says, You were born 24 naked and the rest is drag.   25 
AJ: And the rest is drag, there you go  I love that. 26 
AA: You know what?  Andrea, like I said, it was a name that got to me when I was very little.  My 27 mom decided not to use it on one of my sisters and then I was like, Well, maybe . . . I never 28 really had the guts to say, because I would like to say, Hey, mom, if I had really been a little girl, 29 what would you name me?  And, of course, thats something that I never got to talk to her 30 because she is . . . I made the fact that I am who I am and . . . well, the spelling of my name is A-31 n-d-r-e-a.  And then Anderson, A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n.  Andrea Anderson - easy to remember.  Like I 32 said, I was born a little boy and I struggled with that all through my elementary years, when I 33 went to my Catholic elementary school. 34 
AJ: OK, you went to a Catholic school. 35 
AA: Yes, over in Mexico City as well. 1 
AJ: So, you were born in Mexico City?   2 
AA: Yes.  And I spent, like I said, my elementary . . . 3 
AJ: One of the biggest cities in the world. 4 
AA: It is, it really is  also very machista.   5 
AJ: Really? 6 
AA: Oh, of course.  Even though they have . . . 7 
AJ: So, macho. 8 
AA: Right, right.  Even though they have legal marriage and all that, when you are born in Mexico, 9 especially with my background, I guess youve got to be very tough skinned  very tough skinned 10 to not let that affect you, but I wasnt.  I was a little kid.  I had no idea what feminism was or 11 machista was, youre just a little boy.  I remember me being through so much, especially with 12 teachers that didnt want me in their classrooms. 13 
AJ: Really?  Why? 14 
AA: Because I was gay and I was very feminine since the beginning. 15 
AJ: You were feminine since you were a very little child? 16 
AA: Since I was . . . I remember, I would tell my husband, I remember I used to have this video that 17 one of my uncles recorded . . . you know, the VH . . . how do you say it? 18 
AJ: VSH . . . VHS. 19 
AA: There you go, the ones that I used to watch when I was little. 20 
AJ: We havent had them for so long. 21 
AA: Right.  And he was videotaping me and it was my little cousins birthday and he was turning 3, 22 just like me  3 or 2, this is one of my first memories. 23 
AJ: OK. 24 
AA: And I remember they were videotaping me and Im standing on a table, literally I went up on the 25 table and started dancing my gay ass away  like dancing.  So, little, that I honestly believe 26 nobody . . . well nobody is born knowing what femininity is or what youre supposed to . . .  27 
AJ: Right, youre just being yourself. 28 
AA: And thats where society comes in and it kicks you in the butt.  And so, youre like, OK, I was 29 born a little boy, but I would like to be like a little girl. 30 
AJ: But I feel like a girl, yeah. 31 
AA: Right.  And I remember I hated that little video, I was so ashamed  I was so ashamed. 32 
AJ: Really? 1 
AA: And I burned it. 2 
AJ: Did the family watch it a lot? 3 
AA: Yeah, yeah  and they would play it for me.  Kind of for them it was funny, everybody laughs  4 but for me, it was so shameful.  And then everybody was . . . Yes, youre an adult, maybe you 5 dont mind, but me as a kid this is my life.  Im going to have cousins, when the adults are not 6 watching, then theyre going to tease my ass. 7 
AJ: Tease you, make fun, beat you up sometimes. 8 
AA: Oh, definitely  definitely.  And, I was a typical kid that never got invited to the soccer games, 9 never got invited to play in the street.  I was very into my music  music was my escape.  10 
AJ: Really? 11 
AA: Music was my escape and Ive always have said it  music and writing.  I started writing poems 12 when I was 11 years old. 13 
AJ: Is that right? 14 
AA: Yeah, and only because . . .  15 
AJ: Do you still write? 16 
AA: Yeah, but only because that was the only . . . I guess that notebook and that pencil would give 17 me the liberty of writing whatever I wanted.   18 
AJ: Yeah, you could be yourself.   19 
AA: I didnt have anybody to talk to  I couldnt talk to my mom about it, I couldnt talk to my dad 20 about it, and when I tried to they dont know how to deal with the problem, that it gets 21 awkward and you get no answers  then why am I even talking to them?  Do you know what I 22 mean?  So, it gets so sad, it was a very, very sad . . . 23 
AJ: Your sisters, you couldnt talk to your sisters? 24 
AA: My sisters were little, Im the oldest. 25 
AJ: Youre the oldest, so they were little babies and they didnt understand. 26 
AA: Im the oldest.  My middle sister was kind of like my best friend and I practically raised my baby 27 sister because my mom was always working and my dad was.  So, I would cook for them since I 28 was eight and cleaning and being the little, kind of, lady of the house without realizing it.  And, it 29 was sad  it was very sad and disappointed, all my elementary school.  My dad always kind of 30 like gave us the material aspect, which I respect and I understand.   31 
AJ: So  house, clothes, food. 32 
AA: Right  house, clothing, luxuries, vacations.  I understand that he had to work his ass off, but 33 sometimes I also wonder what would it be if I would have had instead of him working his ass, for 34 giving me all that, if I would have just been in a public school and instead of having that private 1 school that my dad paid so much for it  all his paychecks went to the schools for the kids.  This 2 is Mexico, its not like here . . .  3 
AJ: Yes, its very expensive. 4 
AA: And with three kids.  Its not that its expensive, but you dont get as much money  you have to 5 work what you work here three times to make . . . like to get a car or to get a house.  Like I said, 6 thats why I tell parents dont really worry about what youre giving your kids but your time  7 give them your time. 8 
AJ: Your love. 9 
AA: I moved out of my house when I was 18, I was so confused and feeling so unwanted that I was 10 just like, Im out  Im out, otherwise I was starting to have suicidal thoughts.   11 
AJ: Oh, no. 12 
AA: Now Im able to talk about it and I understand it, but I dont want any other kid to go through it. 13 
AJ: But you came to the United States before you were 18, right? 14 
AA: I came when I was 14 . . . no, 15.  Fifteen, because when I got here they got me a little cake 15 because it was close to my birthday and they got us a little cake.  My birthday is in May, and my 16 middle sisters birthday is in May, and my baby sister is in April and they could only afford one 17 cake so they kind of put it all together. 18 
AJ: Celebrate everybody today, yeah.  19 
AA: Right. 20 
AJ: But, you were 15  did you have a quinceanera?   21 
AA: Oh, when I was in Mexico  yes . . . before, you would be surprised.  I did have quinceanera. 22 
AJ: Really? 23 
AA: I had two other cousins and me and we were, I guess, three boys, and my mother and my 24 mothers sisters put it all together and we did have, the three of us. 25 
AJ: You said, We were three boys, are they still boys? 26 
AA: Well, they are  but not me. 27 
AJ: OK, got it  all right. 28 
AA: One of them stayed in Mexico, the other one lives in San Diego and even though we were so 29 different, we kind of had to hang around together because we were the same age.  We were the 30 three little boys.   31 
AJ: Sometimes cousins are like brothers and sisters. 32 
AA: Definitely.  What was the question? 33 
AJ: I was asking you when did you come to the United States, what was that experience like? 1 
AA: I had to cross the border, I crossed the border illegally with my mother on my back.  We crossed 2 the dessert in Arizona.   3 
AJ: Oh, you came across in Arizona  not San Diego?   4 
AA: No, Arizona  it was Arizona.  It was one of the saddest experiences I would ever remember 5 because you are literally treated like another bag  youre treated worse than an animal.  When 6 I got to the border, from Mexico City to the border, my baby sisters were able to pass through 7 fake birth certificates and since they were little and well-dressed nobody really made a huge 8 fuss, plus Im talking about almost 15 years old, Im almost 30 now.  It was a little easier for little 9 kids and since I was already a little more grown up and my mother didnt have her papers either, 10 we had to cross . . . there was this one person called the coyote, which is the person that 11 actually will pass you through.  12 
AJ: How do you spell that, do you know?   13 
AA: Coyote  yeah.  C-o-y-o-t-e.  14 
AJ: OK, coyote.   15 
AA: And he will be the one that you pay to in order for them to cross you safely.  They put you in a 16 room before everything and they hide you, like in this basement  no water, no food, just 17 literally stay there until we call you and you dont know whats going to be next. 18 
AJ: What?  It may be a day, it may be two weeks.   19 
AA: This is in the mountains, Mexicos mountains, because we werent in the United States yet.  So, 20 youre dealing with people . . . this coyote guy was probably into as many drugs as you can 21 possibly think about.  We also had to deal with the cholos which are a bunch of the Mexican 22 gangs that will . . . I was robbed three times.  The first time I was robbed, they ripped my pants  23 I was wearing some pants and they ripped it open trying to find money because they said I had 24 money on my belt or whatever. 25 
AJ: Right. 26 
AA: We would keep going and then 20 minutes later we would have more Mexican gangs trying to 27 get whatever  they got my shoes and they gave me . . . my dad bought me this nice Nikes, kind 28 of like, Saying, hey  Ill give you these shoes, just keep going and this is for better.  I was a 29 little kid and I had these little shoes and I decided to wear them that night, well I didnt make it 30 two steps and they took my shoes and they gave me these old-ass shoes that they were having. 31 They were big on me and I had to keep going with no belt, long-ass shoes with my mother on my 32 back. 33 
AJ: Im sorry, yeah.   34 
AA: Its OK, honey  its not your fault.  My mother on my back kept telling me, Keep going, Im not 35 going to make it  just leave me here, just leave me here and Ill just wait for the Migra or 36 literally just die.  Because what else was she going to do?  Im talking about two in the morning, 1 middle of Arizona, Nogales  in the desert.  And my mom is like, I cant do it. 2 
AJ: Nogales, you said. 3 
AA: Nogales its called, its part of the border, the Mexican border.  And my mom would beg me to 4 leave her because she would want me to make it and I was able to keep going.  But then, also, 5 my mother would say, When I saw your face that also gave me strength to keep going.  I 6 literally had to drag her and then when I couldnt, the fucking coyote, the guy, he pulled her so 7 hard she fell down the mountain and I saw her going down . . .  8 
AJ: Down the mountain? 9 
AA: I saw her going down because we were going so fast and you dont want to get caught that you 10 have to go as fast as you can and my mother, she was already probably in her 40s and youre 11 talking about a heavy lady  not very heavy but, you know, a mom. 12 
AJ: Shes a mom, shes had three kids. 13 
AA: Right.  And she probably didnt have the condition or whatever.  These are things that now I 14 think of, but back then you dont think about anything. 15 
AJ: Youre just going. 16 
AA: You just want to get out and get it done with.  Very sad.  And then I came to . . . St. Paul was the 17 first, or was the original destination, St. Paul, and we went all the way in this van, trying to stay 18 away from the cops with this person that drove us around.  He was probably doing eight lines of 19 cocaine per night so he could keep going.  20 
AJ: No way. 21 
AA: And at that moment you dont see those things.  All I could think of is my favorite tunes, you 22 know, like I had my iPod here, literally close your mind and hope for the best.  After that, we got 23 here and I went to high school; we went to high school and my baby sister went to middle 24 school.   25 
AJ: And you went to Gordon Parks High School.   26 
AA: My first high school was actually Arlington.  Arlington High School was the first high school that I 27 enrolled in, but with all the issues that I was going through, I honestly didnt put any effort on 28 school.  I was more worried what was going to be about my life.  I was worried about . . . and 29 this is what I think about now that Im old enough to talk to parents  dont expect your kid to 30 have good grades when theyre being bullied, when they are being . . . its a whole new 31 language, I didnt speak any English.  I hardly had the first words or say, Good morning, or 32 whatever.  I didnt speak correct English so you literally go to a high school full of people that 33 speaks English, your teachers speak English, and the only community, the Latino community  34 they speak Spanish, but thats all they want to speak.  I didnt want that.  Does that make sense?   35 
AJ: Yeah, you want to learn. 36 
AA: I wanted to learn, I wanted to learn English, I wanted to . . . at least learn English so I would be 1 able to communicate and make it happen, make it better. 2 
AJ: Yeah, people dont mess with you as much if you know how to speak their language. 3 
AA: Definitely. 4 
AJ: It was very hard, because even when I got here I decided to put it all aside, all my gay issues, all 5 my insecurities . . .  6 
AA: Gender. 7 
AJ: Were you thinking about gender?   8 
AA: Oh, definitely.  I was, but I was still little enough to know that I was going to have a life even 9 with or without my parents being OK with it. 10 
AJ: Accepting, yeah.   11 
AA: Accepting it.  I thought that we were always going to be a family, I thought that I would never 12 make it alone  all those thoughts when you are a kid.  And then my dad got this job with this 13 person that just basically rent illegals to work on constructions or whatever, and he had a bad 14 accident.  He fell from two floors down on a porch  so he fell on wood.  And I was there helping 15 him, we were both working together.  And only the two of us fixing this porch, like the ceiling of 16 a porch  a roof porch in one of the rich houses up in Minnetonka or whatever.  And, he fell and 17 I will never forget that either because I saw everything.  He was screwing the wood on the floor 18 and he forget he didnt screw it correctly and then I remember I told him something, I distracted 19 him, and he turned around and then he stepped on it and he didnt screw it correctly so he went 20 down  and I saw everything.  So, that was one of those . . . that will be one of the hardest 21 memories I will never be able to forget.  I remember the song that was playing.   22 
AJ: What song? 23 
AA: Its called No No No by Thalia, its a Latin song. 24 
AJ: OK, yeah. 25 
AA: And, it was so hard because right after that my dad needed somebody to take care of him and I 26 was going through this . . . I just wanted to be out, I wanted to be out, I wanted to meet people.  27 I was 18, I was tired of doing drag, I didnt want to deal with any of that.  I didnt want to deal 28 with any of . . . I know it was wrong now, but that was the time, that was the time when I moved 29 out  when my father got sick and I saw that we werent even able to pay for renting an 30 apartment, and youre talking about a family of five.  My mom, my dad, me, and my two sisters.  31 So, I guess my thought was before I do anything involving my transition and involving putting my 32 family in shame, I would rather be alone so they dont have anything to do with it.  Does that 33 make sense? 34 
AJ: Absolutely. 35 
AA: Because I dont want to give them no more reason for them to struggle with . . . on top of 36 everything that youve got, then you have a queer son.   37 
AJ: How is your father now?   1 
AA: My father is well now, they both went back to Mexico  my mom and my dad, they didnt like it 2 here.  They had a pretty good two or three years but then my dad . . . he was an engineer down 3 there and when he got here he was working Chipolte so you can imagine how big of a life status 4 that is. 5 
AJ: Sure. 6 
AA: And my mom was actually . . . she never really worked when we were back in Mexico but now 7 she was working in a factory for females that did the sewing and she was making the money and 8 my dad was working at Chipolte.  So, he got very . . . his balance, and now my mom is the one 9 calling the shots and I guess my dad really couldnt take that.   10 
AJ: Yeah. 11 
AA: Youve got to remember, its a Mexican background.  If youre a dad or a man and youre not 12 working or able to provide, then youre nothing. 13 
AJ: What about your sisters?  Are they still here in the United States? 14 
AA: Shes still here  one of them is still here, the middle one.  And then the youngest one went back 15 with my mom.  Like I said, I live also in San Diego . . . well, let me finish.  In high school, I 16 graduated after four years  I graduated when I was 21 years old from high school.  And 17 honestly, this is another thing I have to say about the education that I have received at Gordon 18 Parks, it wasnt the best but it also taught me that once I graduated I was able to get a better job 19 or . . . I was the first one to graduate from my family in high school so that actually meant a lot. 20 
AJ: Really? 21 
AA: Yeah. 22 
AJ: Congratulations, yeah.   23 
AA: That actually meant a lot so even though it was hard, I remember that when I was at Arlington I 24 had a . . . she wasnt a teacher, she was like a coordinator or whatever, and she was supposed to 25 help Latin families and Latin kids or whatever.  I remember the only phone call that I got from 26 her, it was to tell my parents that I wasnt going to graduate.   27 
AJ: Wow, otherwise she never called, she never helped. 28 
AA: Now I know that I could have gone to different . . . like the Power of You and different 29 organizations that will help you out.   30 
AJ: Yeah. 31 
AA: And nobody told me that when I was in high school. 32 
AJ: Because Power of You, they pay for you to go to college for free . . . yeah. 33 
AA: Right, and nobody mentioned that.  I was still too young to even care for it, I didnt know where 34 I was going to be sleeping the next day.  I moved out when I was 18, but I kept going to high 35 school and then that was the only time that I got to see my parents was when they kind of 1 wanted to get me back and be like, Hey, dont be like that, come back home and this and that.  2 But, I didnt.  I actually found a really good friend, his name is Jorge, and Jorge was there for me 3 when nobody . . . he already was very independent, he has his own place, and we were best 4 friends.  So, when I saw that opportunity, I asked him, Hey, give me a chance, let me move in.  5 I started working for Chipolte and I started living life by my own.  I didnt want to go back home, 6 I didnt want to go back home only because I knew the plans that I had, that I probably was 7 going to be dressing up a little more often.  I always loved my make-up, I always loved to be 8 feminine so there were so many things that when I tried to dress the first time in drag in my 9 house, I had to literally open the window and escape and lock my mom out of my room when 10 she was knocking, What are you doing?  Nothing, nothing.  I was doing my lashes and then . 11 . . its funny now, but it was actually a hell of a trip. 12 
AJ: It was real life, right.  It was a trip, yeah. 13 
AA: And this is why Im sharing it, I wanted to share what it really was. 14 
AJ: I appreciate it. 15 
AA: Because I know . . . like I told my husband, its not really for me but for the people coming 16 behind us. 17 
AJ: So, youre married? 18 
AA: Yeah, yeah  Im married. 19 
AJ: How long? 20 
AA: Ive been married for two years.  I met the guy for a year and then we went to Florida, we went 21 in his car because we didnt have a lot of money.  I got evicted from this one place that we were 22 paying $520 for a crappy-ass room and the only reason why we were paying that was because 23 we thought the couple that rented to us was legit and when I first went into that house, the lady 24 that rented to me, she was like, Oh, yeah, Im going to help you to be a PCA and I have all these 25 things and come rent with us and well help you, this and that.  We were both very foolish to 26 actually believe them and then later on we found out that they were both illegally selling their 27 medicines and smoking crack and getting high in the basement of the house so the smell would 28 go all the way up.  It got very ugly, I went to jail for it  I went to jail for it because one night 29 after me calling nine or ten times, the cops, to tell them that I had a roommate that was 30 smoking crack and he broke the door of my room because he wanted to come in and broke the 31 door and then after I sprayed him with pepper spray, he punched me on my mouth and I had a 32 busted lip.  Everything got so ugly that after me calling the cops nine times, they didnt do 33 anything, honey. 34 
AJ: And then they took you to jail? 35 
AA: And when he called them, the first time he called them  since Ive already been calling them 36 too much or I dont know what they were thinking, they took me.  They took me to jail and got 37 me out of that house.  I felt so discriminated and so . . . because it just wasnt right. 38 
AJ: Were you living your life as a woman at the time? 1 
AA: Yeah, I was.  This is not even a year ago . . . like a year and a half, a year and a half.  I was with 2 my husband already, so he was there with me.   3 
AJ: So, you believe the cops were discriminating against you . . .  4 
AA: Oh, absolutely. 5 
AJ: . . . because you were transgender or because you were . . .? 6 
AA: Because I was transgender. 7 
AJ: And Latina. 8 
AA: And Latina, and also because Ive already called like nine times for them to take this guy that 9 was doing drugs and selling and . . .  10 
AJ: Violating your privacy. 11 
AA: And they didnt do anything.  They would tell me, Only not because you call us and because you 12 want us to take him downtown, were going to do it  this is not how it works.  And even 13 though I beg him, Then what do you want me to do?  I tell him  and it was a woman, the cop 14 was a woman. 15 
AJ: Oh, my goodness, wow.  In Minneapolis or in St. Paul?  Im just curious. 16 
AA: It was northeast  northeast Minneapolis.  And they took me only one day in, because my 17 husband paid the bill but after that, right when I got out I told Frank, You know what?  Im not 18 going to stay here any longer.  We didnt have anywhere to stay anyway, we didnt have 19 anywhere to stay.  My manager at the time where I was working at the beauty salon, he turned 20 his back on me because this woman that I lived with kept calling to my work and said bad things 21 about me and since I wasnt legally hired, he told me, Hey, there is this one lady calling and she 22 said you work here and youre not even supposed to tell anybody that you work here.  So, he 23 got mad that she knew and its not that I told her just for shit and giggles, I told her because we 24 were friends at some point and I wanted them to know  I even invited her over, Hey, come to 25 this beauty salon, Ill do your hair.  We used to be friends at some point and then everything 26 got so ugly that he turned his back on me and all my friends turned their back on me because all 27 the friends that I had back then were in the same circle of this beauty salon.  And since the 28 owner didnt want anything to do with me, he also . . . everybody was like, Oh my God, we 29 better dont help her, I guess. 30 
AJ: They didnt want to get in trouble. 31 
AA: With the boss, right.  So, I told my husband right when he got me, he went to get me and wed 32 been talking about it and Im like, Lets go, lets go to Florida.  I dont care  Ive been there 33 before.  Id been there once, I worked my ass off but guess what? The weather is nice and even 34 if you have to sleep on the beach or in the street, its not going to be as cold as here  we didnt 35 have anywhere to stay.  We went, driving all the way down.  I remember my husband kept 36 telling me, we made it with $100.  The car was not spending a lot of gas and hes a very good 37 driver.  We went all the way down to Florida and we stayed there for almost . . . like six or seven 1 months because . . . like I said, we didnt have a place to sleep so we were working in this factory 2 for Jewish people, called Kitchen Kosher, the Kosher Kitchen.  These people down in Florida 3 were paying us like $8/hour, which is something . . . maybe Im used to it, but my husband 4 getting $8 and it wasnt an easy job, it was in a kitchen  youve got to be peeling potatoes, 5 counting carrots, doing pastries . . .  6 
AJ: Its hot. 7 
AA: Its hot and then our boss was a total asshole, Im sorry for my French. 8 
AJ: You can use whatever language . . .  9 
AA: He was a total, complete asshole  he will use people, and thats the way Miami goes, sorry for 10 saying that but I always tell people, Miami, if you dont think you will make it anywhere and 11 then you go to Miami, youre not only dealing with the competition of other Latinos, youre 12 dealing with people from Russia, from Middle East, from Europe, from Cuba, from Central 13 America.  All those immigrants come in . . .  14 
AJ: Libya, Haiti  a lot of Haitians. 15 
AA: Right, oh definitely  a lot of Haitians, very beautiful guys.  No, definitely.  And I told them, You 16 know what?  If youre not ready for that kind of competition, dont go, because people are 17 willing to work their ass off for $5 and they dont know better.  Because remember, the 18 countries were coming from  Middle East, Peru, Guatemala . . .  19 
AJ: They dont make a lot of money. 20 
AA: They dont know any better.  For them, $5 is so much, and thats when the politics come in 21 because trust me . . .  22 
AJ: The politics. 23 
AA: The politics.  If they wanted to really kick us all out and build that damn wall that they want to or 24 whatever, they would have done it already.  They always the money, they always have the thing 25 against us, they always knew we come here and yes we might get a fake social security, but 26 were not doing it to do crimes, were doing it because otherwise we wont have anything to eat 27 or anywhere to work.  People need to understand that because they classify us for such 28 criminals  they come and stole our identities and all this.  You know what?  Its not like that.  29 Its not like that.  If people come here its honestly because . . . when I was coming here the first 30 time I went to Miami, I found a lot of Honduran girls that had been kidnapped and raped and . . .  31 
AJ: Like sex trafficking? 32 
AA: Yeah, everything  everything you can imagine.  Thats where everything happens, on the 33 borders  when theyre crossing people and then they kidnap their kids and they told them that 34 until you pay theyre not going to let you out and they have to call back home and they get 35 whatever money they can so they can actually keep going on their trip.  Its bad and these are 36 real women, these are not transgender. 37 
AJ: Yeah, cis women. 1 
AA: These are women with their kids that they said, I dont have another choice.  If I didnt get out 2 of Honduras, they were going to kill me and my kids.  And thats bottom line, thats what is 3 going on right now.  Its so hard, but at the end of the day, a lot of people dont know about all 4 these things.  Thats when I wanted to make an emphasis on it because . . . like I said, like 5 perhaps right now, at this point in my life right now, I said, If Im going to be a broke bitch here 6 and Im going to be a broke bitch in Mexico, guess what?  Id rather go back. 7 
AJ: Yeah? 8 
AA: Because possibilities are getting so slimmed down right now, especially with Trump and the 9 presidency. 10 
AJ: Right. 11 
AA: And all this hate  because there is no other word, all this hate that he is putting on people  12 white supremacy and all this bullshit that I dont know where theyre coming from.  When you 13 get on that situation and you feel discriminated against in all the possible ways, and you feel 14 unwanted by this country  thats what I told my husband, then what am I doing here?  If I go 15 back to Mexico, Ill probably just go back there to die and if I dont go back there to die, Im 16 going to end up being a prostitute or one of those drug dealers or whatever, you know what?  17 Because if I go back, nobody respects a trans girl down there.  For them, being a trans girl and 18 you dont have no money, youre worse than a cockroach.  My mother used to tell me when I 19 was little, The only three things that their bosses had  there is no worse three things than 20 being poor, ugly, and a faggot.  Those are the three worst things you could ever probably aim 21 for.   22 
AJ: Wow. 23 
AA: When I came to the states and I started at Arlington High School, they have a group for LGBT 24 community. 25 
AJ: The GSA or something. 26 
AA: I dont remember what it was called but it was the first thing . . .  27 
AJ: Its a high school group for LGBT folks, yeah. 28 
AA: It was a high school group for LGBT and that was the first time that I actually felt that I could 29 actually change my life and I could become something else that . . . just a little queer, or that I 30 was going to be heard and these people knew what youre going through and thats why theyre 31 creating the little group because they know what youre going through and this little group . . . 32 everybody will talk about how . . .  33 
AJ: Support each other and . . . 34 
AA: Right, support each other.  And I never saw that before, so for me, that spoke wonders  hugely, 35 hugely.  And, thats why I said every person is a different planet and youve got to remember 36 that.  Every person is a different planet, every person is a different background.  You cannot set 37 your mind and say, Oh yeah, all men, all women, all trans.  You know what?  No  that is not 1 ever going to happen.   2 
AJ: Were all individuals. 3 
AA: Were similar, maybe, but every person is a different planet.  So, when youre able to talk to 4 another person and communicate ideas, this idea will sometimes speak so much to you and you 5 will keep them for yourself, and Ive always been . . . well, I was raised Catholic and I always 6 believe in a God, but I dont believe in a God that hates.   7 
AJ: Right. 8 
AA: I deny to believe that church, which is a human group  made by humans, I refuse to believe 9 that they know what theyre talking about when it comes down to gay people.   10 
AJ: Yeah. 11 
AA: Who told you?  Have you actually spoken to God?  Let me know where to go, Ive got shit to tell 12 him.  So, when it comes down to that, Ive always believed in this God that doesnt hate, that 13 doesnt judge, and like I said, one of my best friends . . .  14 
AJ: Do you go to church now? 15 
AA: I did . . . Ive been there a couple of times and the last time that I was there I was still a boy and I 16 was with my partner at the moment.  They started talking about how they dont allow same-17 people marriage because we were in this straight Latin church right here in north Minneapolis, 18 and they started talking about how bad that is, my hubby at the time  my boyfriend at the 19 time, he got up, he walked out  he was like, Are you staying or are you leaving?  I didnt know 20 what to do.  He walked out and what am I going to do  just stay there?  So, I walked out with 21 him. 22 
AJ: Sure.   23 
AA: And he had a point. 24 
AJ: Absolutely, if you dont want me here Im not going to . . . yeah. 25 
AA: He had a point and what was I supposed to do?  So, after that experience Id rather . . . I 26 remember there was this little church over in South Beach, Miami  over on Lincoln Road, a 27 pretty famous little church.  I used to go there by my own, usually youll be close  but just go 28 there and put my life on his hands and say, Hey, listen, if Im doing something wrong, take my 29 life away  take it away, dont allow me to do these things that Im doing right now.  And, like I 30 said, I was dealing with suicidal thoughts, I was drinking heavily  heavily meaning like I got up 31 and the first thing glug, glug, glug, and then Id go to work intoxicated and Id keep working 32 intoxicated and then get out and have more drinks.  I lost so much weight, but there was a 33 reason behind my madness  there was a reason behind it.  Youre so depressed and so 34 unwanted and alcohol is the only thing that actually makes you just forget and keep going.  So, 35 when it comes down to religion and . . . like I said, I do believe in God, but no . . . I dont believe 36 in a God that judges.  I dont believe on that.  My friend, over in Miami, I used to tell her that 37 they . . . at least on the day I die, and is there really a God, Im going to able to look at him 38 straight in the eye and say, You know what?  I only did what was in my heart.  I only meant 1 well.  I only meant well and tried to help my sisters that are coming back.  Right now, theyre 2 little kids, the little trans young kids; theyre the ones that are going to be our presidents in a 3 day or tomorrow. 4 
AJ: Absolutely, theyre going to be running these companies and driving our busses and flying our 5 airplanes  absolutely. 6 
AA: And you know what?  When people are like, Transgender is a sickness, or, Being gay is a 7 sickness, or whatever, I honestly believe that is . . . those thoughts for being in the year where 8 we are, in the century where we are, theyre just not allowed anymore. 9 
AJ: Yeah, thats nonsense.  10 
AA: And whoever denies that were around and whoever denies that every family has one, theyre in 11 their own denial.  Thats all it is. 12 
AJ: Youve brought a lot of papers and other things with you today, Andrea.  What is that all about?  13 
AA: I brought notebooks, a couple of notebooks, that is where I write.  Nothing serious, nothing . . .  14 
AJ: Do you have a poem that you want to share?   15 
AA: I have a couple  the political ones are in Spanish, the ones that Ive got right now.  But I do have 16 . . .  17 
AJ: So, you write in Spanish as well as English. 18 
AA: Spanish and English, yes.  But I do have a . . . where is it?  Let me find it here.   Those papers are 19 the ones that I worked for, because I also wanted to share the story about working and . . . I 20 worked for this restaurant over here in south Minneapolis, its a very new restaurant.  Im not 21 going to say their name because I dont believe in that, but Im not going to say their name so I 22 dont give them publicity, which is bad publicity by the way.  I dont want to be that bitch, Oh, 23 they called us out.  I dont want to be.  But, I will share the story that I still have the forms 24 where they were supposed to hire me with and they never took them and they never actually 25 took my paperwork and my socials and everything.  They make me work  and I was fine, I was 26 fine.  Im going to start working as a server and I worked my ass off, I learned the menus, I 27 learned their . . . everything, honey  everything.  I learned their menus, I learned their drinks, I 28 was always there early.  And these people, I dont know if it was the fact that I was a trans or if it 29 was the fact that they didnt know because I didnt specify it, but see I didnt know if I had to 30 specify it because are you going to be asking everybody that applies for a job, Are you a girl or a 31 guy?   32 
AJ: Right, they dont. 33 
AA: Right.   34 
AJ: So, youre there, youre working, you look like a woman, so why are they asking the question? 35 
AA: Right, I was there  it wasnt even a month, they fired me one day before Christmas and the 36 reason why they fired me is because I gave away a guacamole.  That night, I sold $600 . . . I have 37 everything, I kept everything honey because I knew one day . . . that day, Im just going to show 1 you the totals here.  One night it was $310, one night.  The other night $322, and this is just a 2 few.  Another night $293.  And the last night that I invite my husband to sit in and I was going to 3 serve him, I sold $574.  The reason why they fired me was because I gave my husband a 4 guacamole and I didnt charge him for it.  It devastated me. 5 
AJ: $3 . . . guacamole is what?  $3, right.   6 
AA: Over there its like $6, because also their prices are crazy.  Who am I tell? Ive never owned a 7 restaurant but I think $6 for a guacamole is crazy.  And I just wanted to share that story because 8 it devastated me.  I remember never crying so much for the loss of a job, only because I had so 9 many intentions to make it happen.  It was my official first time as a real server.  Ive always 10 been a food runner, Ive been a bar back, a busser  you call it, Ive done it. 11 
AJ: Dishwasher maybe. 12 
AA: Of course, dishwasher  Ive worked in . . . you name it, any restaurant . . . because I like it, its 13 one of my passions.  I really enjoy serving people. It seems a lot of people like me too because I 14 was coming home, tips alone, with $100, $80.  But youve got to remember that I also was 15 expecting a paycheck, which I never got because they didnt take my paperwork  I never got 16 paid.  I never got paid and that day when they fired me, they told me because I have given . . . 17 one of the servers told my boss that I have served guacamole and a couple pieces of 18 watermelon that were designated to go into the trash because nobody was going to eat them  19 and since I took them to my husband, they made such a big deal about it.  And Im like - you 20 know what?  Maybe thats the rules and I respect that, but thats the reason why I also never 21 came back.  If youre that cheap, maybe you need this money more than me.  Do you know what 22 I mean?  And, I cried like Ive never cried before.  I remember, I even told him, You know what?  23 That night I sold you $600 and you cant even let the guacamole pass?  And, I hardly believe 24 that it wasnt just that.  And, the fact that it just happened this Christmas, this is very recently. 25 
AJ: Two-and-a-half months ago, yes.   26 
AA: Right.  And, it devastated me  it devastated me emotionally, it devastated me physically 27 because I was working there and I also was, right after that, I would go to snowplowing with my 28 husband, so I had two jobs  just imagine being a server on your feet from 4-11pm because you 29 have to clean and everything, and then go to snowplowing and be back at your house until 4 or 30 6 in the morning, try to sleep a little bit, and then go back again.   31 
AJ: Wow.  Im so sorry. 32 
AA: No, no, honey.  Thats why I want people to . . . now Im able to talk about it with no tears in my 33 eyes.  I know I didnt do anything wrong. 34 
AJ: You didnt deserve that. 35 
AA: I didnt deserve that  thats the reason I cried.  I cry when Im angry because of frustration and 36 not being able to do anything.  And, my husband saw me and he just hold from my back and I 37 remember my legs started going like this  like I was even going to faint.  It was a feeling that Id 38 never felt before and only because I had put so many effort and good intention to that and 39 etcetera.  I want people, trans people especially to not become hookers, to not become 1 prostitutes, to try to make it  because even though the rough is going to be hard, because it is  2 nobody said it was going to be happy and everybody has problems, everybody. 3 
AJ: We all do. 4 
AA: And maybe we as trans, maybe . . . its like I told my mom one day, you think I woke up one day 5 and I said, Oh, yeah, its fun to be discriminated by everybody and lets be point by everybody  6 yay!  This is something that is natural, it feels natural  and if it doesnt feel natural, then youre 7 doing the wrong thing. 8 
AJ: Right. 9 
AA: Dont transition for a guy or a girl, dont transition for anybody but yourself because at the end 10 of the day, thats all youre going to have. 11 
AJ: Wow.  Can I ask you, Andrea, and you dont have to answer if you dont want to . . .  12 
AA: No, no, no  of course. 13 
AJ: Whatever you want to say.  Have you undergone any medical interventions in your . . .? 14 
AA: On my body? 15 
AJ: Yeah. 16 
AA: No, I havent had the money.   17 
AJ: Yeah, it costs a lot of money.   18 
AA: It costs a lot of money.  And also . . .  19 
AJ: But your skin is so smooth. 20 
AA: Thank you, honey. 21 
AJ: And your hair is so beautiful. 22 
AA: Thank you.  Ive always . . . that is the lucky part about being a Latina is that a lot of us have that 23 naturally kind of a deal, but also I do get my hormones over at the West St. Paul Clinic. 24 
AJ: So, you do take hormones. 25 
AA: Yes, I do take hormones.  I just started recently and . . . how do I say it?  I do one month and 26 then I let two months pass; and then I do another month  only because if I . . . well the doctor 27 said . . . by the way, I say hi to my doctor  her name is Jessica Pereira. 28 
AJ: Hey, Jessica. 29 
AA: And shes huge  you guys go there and its not expensive, they will help you out, nobody 30 judges.  And a lot of the girls told me . . . 31 
AJ: How do you say her name?  Jessica . . .? 32 
AA: Pereira.  I think shes married to a Latino guy, thats why its a Latino last name.  Jessica Pereira. 1 
AJ: West Side Clinic. 2 
AA: West Side  La Clinica.   3 
AJ: Yeah, yeah  right. 4 
AA: Right by the brewery on Robert. 5 
AJ: I know exactly where it is, yeah. 6 
AA: And I only pay like $20 and they give me my shot and they give me my pills.  And, I decided to 7 start doing it only because I was feeling very . . . I was feeling like a lot of hair on my chest and 8 on my beard and hair where I didnt have as much before.  As you get older . . .  9 
AJ: Yeah, you start to get more and more. 10 
AA: Right, right.  And, so I decided to do that but I also found out that its not something that you 11 want to depend on because youre not able to . . . you dont get libido, as much libido. 12 
AJ: Your sex drive, yeah.   13 
AA: Your sex drive and you get depressed, you get . . . you know, whatever.  And, Im already a crazy 14 bitch so Im going to take it little by little.  But when it comes down to surgery, Im planning on 15 having my breasts done and I believe thats it.  Im pretty happy with how I look right now. 16 
AJ: The rest of your body, yeah.  Are the hormones, are they working?   17 
AA: Oh, definitely.  Maybe theyre not going to work right away, like I said I just started them, but I 18 also dont . . . I want to keep my eyes open with my doctor.  That was something very important 19 because a lot of Latinas just bomp, bomp, bomp and they get on the Black market and . . . I dont 20 know, there has got to be something wrong about that because youre not following with the 21 doctor. 22 
AJ: Sometimes its not real silicone and it moves all around your body. 23 
AA: Im talking about the hormones, when it comes down to the silicone  trust me, some of the 24 girls I know, they put fucking oil . . . the ones that you cook with . . .  25 
AJ: Cooking oil, yeah.   26 
AA: That probably gives you breasts for two years but in three years theyre going to become hard as 27 a rock.  Ive seen some of the girls doing that.  So, thats why I said, its very easy for a 28 transgender woman to become very banal, very vain and you want to look your best, 29 [inaudible].  Ive been there too but you also have to realize that no matter how you look, 30 when youre an ugly person on the outside, youre . . .  31 
AJ: On the inside. 32 
AA: On the inside, Im sorry.  When youre an ugly person on the inside, no matter how you look.  1 Ive seen a girl looking amazingly and as soon as they open their mouth, nobody wants to be 2 near them. 3 
AJ: Are there a lot of trans-Latinas in Minnesota? 4 
AA: Yes, yes, yes.   5 
AJ: Because the girls dont . . . I never see . . . 6 
AA: You know what?  I believe the reason why they keep it all to themselves is because a lot of them 7 are doing illegal stuff. 8 
AJ: Theyve got to make a living, right?  You tried to work and you still get harassed, you get fired, 9 they dont take your paperwork, they dont pay you your paycheck. 10 
AA: Definitely.  Thats the base of the problem because theyre not willing to put up with a lot of that 11 bullshit  especially when you see . . . it wouldnt be any trannies out there on Craigslist or 12 whatever if there werent any guys looking for them. 13 
AJ: Right, exactly. 14 
AA: And you would be surprised, because a guy will always deny it  always deny it.  A guy being 15 with a transgender woman is like the worst thing that they could ever think of. 16 
AJ: They always say, Youre the first girl Ive . . . But, theyve been with like 18 other trans women 17 in their life. 18 
AA: Right, exactly.  I guess its like the good and the bad part.  The good thing is that they see you as 19 a girl, no matter  youre trans but they see you as a real girl.  For them, youre their girl.  But 20 also, when it comes down to, Hey, pappy, listen - I need some soap, I need some food, whats 21 up?  Oh . . . And especially Latinas, they treat you like youre worse than a damn cockroach.  22 Just like . . . just like the fricking American guys, you know.  If youre not a girl, they will treat you 23 . . . they think theyre making you a favor, which is so wrong to think that way.  And the reason 24 why I got married, my husband knows everything, honey  everything. 25 
AJ: And he loves you. 26 
AA: And he loves me.  He knows everything.  Ive told him whats up.  I even told him, because he 27 has a kid, and I told him, Hey, you know what?  Does your kid already know? 28 
AJ: How old is his kid? 29 
AA: Like 16 . . . 15. 30 
AJ: OK. 31 
AA: And I was like, Hey, does he already know?  And he was like, Well, no, because for me youre 32 a girl, and this and that.  Well, I respect that, hon, but dont forget who you are with  and 33 dont forget that there is nothing wrong about it.  Whoever thinks that is wrong about it, theyre 34 just close-minded.  Close-minded and these people want to live in their own little world and 35 sadly, a lot of those people end up in very bad situations because of the same reason.  They end 1 up with a trans boy that just got killed or suicidal, which was a road that I was going to go  2 because I was always very afraid, especially with my mother.  I love my mother, my mother and I 3 were best friends until I became what I became. 4 
AJ: So, now you guys dont communicate very much? 5 
AA: We do talk to each other but . . . but, its just been hard for me because when Im not able to 6 send money back to Mexico, I dont feel fulfilled, I dont feel like I help.  And this is my mother 7 and my baby sister were talking about.  So, when I dont have anything to show for . . . I was 8 raised like that, I want to help my family. 9 
AJ: Yes. 10 
AA: So, it really hurts me the fact that I havent been able . . . because I always have . . . $50, for over 11 there thats 700 pesos.  Do you know what I mean? 12 
AJ: Yeah, yeah.   13 
AA: And it might not be a lot but for them it really means a lot, especially coming . . . for Mexico City, 14 the neighborhood that I come from, its very, very bad.  And even though . . . thats why my 15 mom got back, because she had her house there . . . 16 
AJ: Her friends. 17 
AA: Her friends, her whole family is back there.  And thats why sometimes I feel very so alone 18 because I dont have anybody here.  My husband, we have awful fights and Im like, You know 19 what?  Im out of here, Im getting my ticket, I already know  its $230 all the way to Mexico 20 City.  If Im going to be here unwanted and living like poor people, then whats the difference 21 for me being here or in Mexico? 22 
AJ: Right exactly.  Where its warm. 23 
AA: What is the difference?  Right.  But I also believe that hopefully, you know, things are going to 24 change.  Youve got to keep that hope  and luckily Im almost 30 now, Im going to give it 25 maybe a couple more years but thats it.  If I think . . . just like a lot of people are going to do, 26 theyre going to start moving out of the states if things keep going the way theyre going.  How 27 many people have already gone to Canada and anywhere else? 28 
AJ: Anywhere else but here.   29 
AA: Right.   30 
AJ: Wow.  Andrea, this has just been such a fascinating conversation. 31 
AA: Thank you. 32 
AJ: I havent really even had to ask you very many questions.   33 
AA: I was very ready. 34 
AJ: You have been sharing. 35 
AA: Ive been ready to find somebody that actually would care about a story and will share it with 1 other people, because otherwise whats the point.   2 
AJ: Yeah. 3 
AA: If a person can learn a little bit from my experience, just like I did when other people shared 4 their experiences, it really means a lot  it really does. 5 
AJ: I just really appreciate the opportunity to sit and get to know you a little bit better.  I feel like 6 our hearts are connected.   7 
AA: Same here. 8 
AJ: I hope that maybe you can help me introduce to other Latina girls  and guys too. 9 
AA: Definitely  yeah.   10 
AJ: I know trans men exist as well, and maybe they might . . .  11 
AA: More often than ever now, more often than ever.   12 
AJ: And I know some of them may want to be a part of this. 13 
AA: Definitely.  And we have to stay united.  Sometimes, trans life can be so lonely and especially 14 when you do what youve got to do to stay alive.  It can get very ugly, very lonely.   15 
AJ: Well, and heres the other thing that I know too, is that being a trans Latina, being 16 undocumented, having sort of a precarious immigration status like that is a really difficult place 17 to be at this particular time in this country. 18 
AA: Definitely.  Like I tell my husband, its like dont ever . . . we just got into this huge fight because 19 Im not working right now and hes barely working because there hasnt been no snow. 20 
AJ: So, money is a problem. 21 
AA: Money is a very big problem.  Its not always been like this.  We havent been the best but we 22 have worked, both of us.  I worked for . . . like I said, Target, Panera Bread, Five Guys  you name 23 it, Ive been there.  24 
AJ: Right. 25 
AA: But the thing is that . . . my husband, dont ever compare yourself to me, because we are not in 26 the same level.  You have your papers, you were born here.  I keep telling him, You have 27 charisma, youre good to go.  And that pisses me off that you dont see that potential. 28 
AJ: He tries to hold you to the same standard, right? Yeah. 29 
AA: Right, right.  And, Im like, We are not in the same standards.  Because if I have my social right 30 now, I would laugh about this fricking life.  And I had that little work permit, but I decided not to 31 pay for it anymore because it was either pay for it or eat. 32 
AJ: Yeah, right. 33 
AA: When I decided not to pay for it no more, it was because, first of all, I wasnt married yet but 1 now that I am, it changed things because hes an American guy.  But still, everything about that 2 legal fees  its all about money, its all about money. 3 
AJ: Theyre just trying to get more money out of you.   4 
AA: Yes.  And the reason, like I told him, dont . . . he was an American guy compared to us, and try 5 to make the same money or have the same kind of work and this and that, because its not the 6 same  its never going to happen.  Im going to be working my ass off for $8 when you can have 7 a good ass job in a heartbeat if you really put yourself into it.  So, I guess what Im trying to say is 8 that, first of all, have compassion for the people that dont have the privileges that you have; 9 and secondly, dont turn your eye.  Do you know what I mean?  Pretend that were non-existent, 10 that we dont exist  because we do exist.  And, the fact that makes us so vulnerable . . . so, if 11 you call right now, if you call ICE right now, theyre probably going to have a truck right here 12 waiting for me just like what happened to that girl in Mississippi. 13 
AJ: In Mississippi, wow. 14 
AA: And this is something new  they never have deported the DACA guys because Obama was into 15 those dreamers guys, but she is a dreamer and they still didnt respect her because she didnt 16 pay the work permit.  So, its a lot of game, a lot of things that dont make any sense  especially 17 on the ICE side because on the news they grabbed the law and theyre interpreting it at their 18 convenience.   19 
AJ: Right, yeah.  Whatever they think . . .  20 
AA: Just have compassion for one another. 21 
AJ: Well, Andrea, Im here for you, I see you, I love you, and if anything in my power to help you  22 Id do that for you. 23 
AA: And same ways, same ways. 24 
AJ: Yes. 25 
AA: Thank you very much, honey, for inviting me to your house  beautiful, beautiful.  Its beautiful 26 talking, hopefully its not the last time. 27 
AJ: No, it will not be  trust me. 28 
AA: All right. Bye. 29 
AJ: Bye-bye.    30 
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